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'''Pokémon''' (ポケモン ''Pokémon'') is a [[Wikipedia:Media franchise|media franchise]] owned by [[Nintendo]] and created by [[Wikipedia:Satoshi Tajiri|Satoshi Tajiri]] around 1995. Originally released as a pair of interlinkable [[Wikipedia:Game Boy line|Game Boy]] [[Wikipedia:Console role-playing game|role-playing]] video games, ''Pokémon'' has since become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, falling only behind [[Nintendo]]'s [[Mario (series)|''Mario'' series]].<ref name="UK paper names top game franchises ">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164012.html |title=UK paper names top game franchises |accessdate=2007-02-26|last=Boyes |first=Emma |date=2007-01-10 |work=GameSpot |publisher=GameSpot UK}}</ref> Pokémon properties have since been merchandised into [[Wikipedia:Anime|anime]], [[Wikipedia:Manga|manga]], [[Wikipedia:Collectible card game|trading cards]], toys, books, and other media. The franchise celebrated its tenth anniversary on February 27, 2006, and as of December 1, 2006, cumulative sold units of the video games (including home console versions, such as the "Pikachu" [[Nintendo 64]]) have reached more than 155 million copies.<ref name="sales release 12 01 2006">{{Cite web |url=http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2543 |title=Nintendo sales through end of November revealed |accessdate=2006-12-01 |last=Behrens |first=Matt |date=2006-12-01 |work=N-Sider |publisher=N-Sider Media}}</ref> |
'''Pokémon''' (ポケモン ''Pokémon'') is a [[Wikipedia:Media franchise|media franchise]] owned by [[Nintendo]] and created by [[Wikipedia:Satoshi Tajiri|Satoshi Tajiri]] around 1995. Originally released as a pair of interlinkable [[Wikipedia:Game Boy line|Game Boy]] [[Wikipedia:Console role-playing game|role-playing]] video games, ''Pokémon'' has since become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, falling only behind [[Nintendo]]'s [[Mario (series)|''Mario'' series]].<ref name="UK paper names top game franchises ">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164012.html |title=UK paper names top game franchises |accessdate=2007-02-26|last=Boyes |first=Emma |date=2007-01-10 |work=GameSpot |publisher=GameSpot UK}}</ref> Pokémon properties have since been merchandised into [[Wikipedia:Anime|anime]], [[Wikipedia:Manga|manga]], [[Wikipedia:Collectible card game|trading cards]], toys, books, and other media. The franchise celebrated its tenth anniversary on February 27, 2006, and as of December 1, 2006, cumulative sold units of the video games (including home console versions, such as the "Pikachu" [[Nintendo 64]]) have reached more than 155 million copies.<ref name="sales release 12 01 2006">{{Cite web |url=http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2543 |title=Nintendo sales through end of November revealed |accessdate=2006-12-01 |last=Behrens |first=Matt |date=2006-12-01 |work=N-Sider |publisher=N-Sider Media}}</ref> |
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| − | The name ''Pokémon'' is the [[Wikipedia:Romanization of Japanese|romanized]] [[Wikipedia:contraction (grammar)|contraction]] of the Japanese brand, ('''ポケ'''ット'''モン'''スター '''Poke'''tto '''Mon'''sutā),<ref name="The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=6531 |title=The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target |accessdate=2007-02-28 |last=Swider |first=Matt |work=Gaming Target |publisher=Gaming Target}}</ref> as such contractions are very common in Japan. The term "Pokémon", in addition to referring to the ''Pokémon'' franchise itself, also collectively refers to the |
+ | The name ''Pokémon'' is the [[Wikipedia:Romanization of Japanese|romanized]] [[Wikipedia:contraction (grammar)|contraction]] of the Japanese brand, ('''ポケ'''ット'''モン'''スター '''Poke'''tto '''Mon'''sutā, '''Pocket Monsters'''),<ref name="The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=6531 |title=The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target |accessdate=2007-02-28 |last=Swider |first=Matt |work=Gaming Target |publisher=Gaming Target}}</ref> as such contractions are very common in Japan. The term "Pokémon", in addition to referring to the ''Pokémon'' franchise itself, also collectively refers to the 649 [[Wikipedia:List of Pokémon|Pokémon species]] that have made appearances in ''Pokémon'' media as of the most recent ''Pokémon'' role-playing games (RPGs) for the [[Wikipedia:Nintendo DS|Nintendo DS]], [[Wikipedia:Pokémon Black and White|''Pokémon Black'' and ''White'']]. Like the words deer and sheep, the singular and plural forms of the word "Pokémon" do not differ, nor does each individual species name; in short, it is grammatically correct to say both "one Pokémon" and "many Pokémon". |
| + | Nintendo originally translated ''Poketto Monsutā'' literally, but a naming conflict with the [[Wikipedia:Monster in My Pocket|Monster in My Pocket]] toy line caused Nintendo to rebrand the franchise as "Pokémon." The game's catchphrase in the Japanese language versions of the franchise is "Let's Get Pokémon!" (ポケモンGETだぜ! ''Pokemon Getto Daze''); in English language versions of the franchise, it was originally "Gotta catch 'em all!", although it is now no longer officially used except in the sidestory episodes airing under the name ''[[Wikipedia:Pokémon Chronicles|Pokémon Chronicles]]''. |
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| − | [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
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| + | ==Collecting and playing== |
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| − | @Marik |
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| + | The concept of the ''Pokémon'' universe, in both the video games and the general fictional world of ''Pokémon'', stems from the hobby of [[Wikipedia:Insect collecting|insect collecting]], a popular pastime which ''Pokémon'' executive director Satoshi Tajiri had enjoyed as a child.<ref> "[http://web.archive.org/web/20050314021722/http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/99/1122/pokemon6.fullinterview1.html The Ultimate Game Freak: Interview with Satoshi Tajiri]", ''TimeAsia'' (Waybacked]).</ref> Players of the games are designated as [[Pokémon Trainer]]s, and the two general goals (in most ''Pokémon'' games) for such Trainers are: to complete the [[Wikipedia:Pokédex|Pokédex]] by collecting all of the available Pokémon species found in the fictional region where that game takes place; and to train a team of powerful Pokémon from those they have caught to compete against teams owned by other Trainers, and eventually become the strongest Trainer, the Pokémon Master. These themes of collecting, training, and battling are present in almost every version of the ''Pokémon'' franchise, including the video games, the anime and manga series, and the Pokémon Trading Card Game. |
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| + | In most incarnations of the fictional ''Pokémon'' universe, a Trainer that encounters a wild Pokémon is able to capture that Pokémon by throwing a specially designed, mass-producible tool called a [[Poké Ball]] at it. If the Pokémon is unable to escape the confines of the Poké Ball, that Pokémon is officially considered under the ownership of that Trainer, and it will obey whatever commands its new master and/or friend (depending on how that trainer treats Pokémon in general) issues to it from that point onward, unless the Trainer demonstrates enough of a lack of experience that the Pokémon would rather act on its own accord. Trainers can send out any of their Pokémon to wage non-lethal battles against Pokémon; if the opposing Pokémon is wild, the Trainer can capture that Pokémon with a Poké Ball, increasing his or her collection of creatures. (Pokémon already owned by other Trainers cannot be captured, except under special circumstances in certain games.) If a Pokémon fully defeats an opponent in battle so that the opponent is knocked out ("faints"), the winning Pokémon gains experience and may level up. When leveling up, the Pokémon's statistics ("stats") of battling aptitude increase, including Attack, Speed, and so on. From time to time the Pokémon may also learn new moves, which are techniques used in battle. In addition, many species of Pokémon possess the ability to undergo a form of [[Wikipedia:Metamorphosis|metamorphosis]] and transform into a similar but stronger species of Pokémon. This is a process called [[Wikipedia:Pokémon evolution|evolution]]. |
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| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
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| + | In the main series, each game's single-player mode requires the Trainer to raise a team of Pokémon to defeat many non-player character Trainers and their Pokémon. Each game lays out a somewhat linear path through a specific region of the Pokémon world for the Trainer to journey through, completing events and battling opponents along the way. Each game features eight especially powerful Trainers, referred to as Gym Leaders, that the Trainer must each defeat in order to progress. As a reward, the Trainer receives a Gym Badge, and once all eight badges are collected, that Trainer is eligible to challenge the region's Pokémon League, where four immensely talented trainers (referred to collectively as the "Elite Four") challenge the Trainer to four Pokémon battles in succession. If the trainer can overcome this gauntlet, he or she must then challenge the Regional Champion, the master Trainer who had previously defeated the Elite Four. Any Trainer who wins this last battle becomes the new champion and gains the title of Pokémon Master. |
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| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
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| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
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| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
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| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
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| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
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| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
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| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
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| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
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| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
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| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
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| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
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| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
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| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
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| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
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| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
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| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
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| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
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| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
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| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
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| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
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| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
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| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
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| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
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| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
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| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
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| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
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| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
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| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Marik |
||
| − | |||
| − | There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either. |
||
| − | If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge. |
||
| − | |||
| − | fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D ) |
||
| − | while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate. |
||
| − | |||
| − | As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... ) |
||
| − | |||
| − | Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour. |
||
| − | Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | @V3ctorman. |
||
| − | You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either. |
||
| − | |||
| − | About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start. |
||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well. |
||
| − | How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc |
||
| − | If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options. |
||
| − | |||
| − | If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing |
||
| − | |||
| − | "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield. |
||
| − | |||
| − | I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh. |
||
| − | |||
| − | Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow. |
||
| − | |||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE] |
||
| − | @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ). |
||
| − | |||
| − | Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE] |
||
==In the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series== |
==In the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series== |
||
===''Super Smash Bros.''=== |
===''Super Smash Bros.''=== |
||
| − | In ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'', two Pokémon are playable characters — the popular [[Pikachu]] and [[Jigglypuff]]. A Pokémon [[stage]] is also in the game, named [[Saffron City]]. |
+ | [[File:Tumblingpikachu.JPG|thumb|Pikachu in Super Smash Bros]]In ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'', two Pokémon are playable characters — the popular [[Pikachu]] and [[Jigglypuff]]. A Pokémon [[stage]] is also in the game, named [[Saffron City]]. |
[[Poké Ball]]s are also in the game as [[item]]s. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros.|one out of 13 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned, each capable of dealing damage to opponents (With the exception of Mew and Goldeen). |
[[Poké Ball]]s are also in the game as [[item]]s. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros.|one out of 13 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned, each capable of dealing damage to opponents (With the exception of Mew and Goldeen). |
||
===''Super Smash Bros. Melee''=== |
===''Super Smash Bros. Melee''=== |
||
| − | In ''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'', four Pokémon are playable characters — [[Pikachu]] |
+ | [[File:Mewtwo2.jpg|thumb|Mewtwo as he appears in Super Smash Bros. Melee]]In ''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'', four Pokémon are playable characters — the returning characters [[Pikachu]] and [[Jigglypuff]] plus [[Pichu]], and [[Mewtwo]]. Two Pokémon stages are in the game — [[Pokémon Stadium]] and [[Poké Floats]]. |
Poké Balls also return in ''Melee''. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee|one out of 29 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned. About 60 Pokémon related [[trophy|trophies]] also appear in the game. |
Poké Balls also return in ''Melee''. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee|one out of 29 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned. About 60 Pokémon related [[trophy|trophies]] also appear in the game. |
||
| Line 1,746: | Line 29: | ||
For a third time, Poké Balls return. [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Brawl|Twenty-nine Pokémon]] (thirty if you count both Latias and Latios) all in the game.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/mball/index.html |title=Poké Balls |accessdate=2007-11-12 |work=[[Smash Bros. DOJO!!]] |publisher=smashbros.com}}</ref> |
For a third time, Poké Balls return. [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Brawl|Twenty-nine Pokémon]] (thirty if you count both Latias and Latios) all in the game.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/mball/index.html |title=Poké Balls |accessdate=2007-11-12 |work=[[Smash Bros. DOJO!!]] |publisher=smashbros.com}}</ref> |
||
| + | |||
| + | ===''Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U''=== |
||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Nintendo 3DS version ==== |
||
| + | In the ''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U|3DS Version]] which has the same characters as the Wii U Version has the Pokémon stages [[Prism Tower]] and [[N's Castle]] so far.'' |
||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Wii U Version ==== |
||
| + | In the ''Wii U Version, [[Pikachu]], [[Jigglypuff]], [[Lucario]], [[Charizard]] (Split from Pokemon Trainer) and [[Mewtwo]] (DLC) are all returning veterans from Brawl. In this game [[Greninja]] from 'Pokémon X and Y' joins Smash Bros. The Pokémon stages for the Wii U version are [[Kalos Pokémon League]] and [[Pokémon Stadium 2]].'' |
||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Trivia ==== |
||
| + | *Not counting Mario spinoffs, Pokemon is the only franchise that has had a new representative in every iteration. |
||
==References== |
==References== |
||
| Line 1,762: | Line 56: | ||
{{wikipedia}} |
{{wikipedia}} |
||
[[Category:Pokémon]] |
[[Category:Pokémon]] |
||
| + | [[Category:Pokémon universe]] |
||
Revision as of 01:02, 24 December 2017
|
This article or section may require a cleanup. The editor who added this tag believes this page should be cleaned up for the following reason: needs to be less ripped from Wikipedia, and it should be mentioned that Wikipedia was used when "writing" this article - also, more info on stuff from the Smash series would be nice You can discuss this issue on the talk page or edit this page to improve it. |
The official Pokémon logo.
Pokémon (ポケモン Pokémon) is a media franchise owned by Nintendo and created by Satoshi Tajiri around 1995. Originally released as a pair of interlinkable Game Boy role-playing video games, Pokémon has since become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, falling only behind Nintendo's Mario series.[1] Pokémon properties have since been merchandised into anime, manga, trading cards, toys, books, and other media. The franchise celebrated its tenth anniversary on February 27, 2006, and as of December 1, 2006, cumulative sold units of the video games (including home console versions, such as the "Pikachu" Nintendo 64) have reached more than 155 million copies.[2]
The name Pokémon is the romanized contraction of the Japanese brand, (ポケットモンスター Poketto Monsutā, Pocket Monsters),[3] as such contractions are very common in Japan. The term "Pokémon", in addition to referring to the Pokémon franchise itself, also collectively refers to the 649 Pokémon species that have made appearances in Pokémon media as of the most recent Pokémon role-playing games (RPGs) for the Nintendo DS, Pokémon Black and White. Like the words deer and sheep, the singular and plural forms of the word "Pokémon" do not differ, nor does each individual species name; in short, it is grammatically correct to say both "one Pokémon" and "many Pokémon".
Nintendo originally translated Poketto Monsutā literally, but a naming conflict with the Monster in My Pocket toy line caused Nintendo to rebrand the franchise as "Pokémon." The game's catchphrase in the Japanese language versions of the franchise is "Let's Get Pokémon!" (ポケモンGETだぜ! Pokemon Getto Daze); in English language versions of the franchise, it was originally "Gotta catch 'em all!", although it is now no longer officially used except in the sidestory episodes airing under the name Pokémon Chronicles.
Collecting and playing
The concept of the Pokémon universe, in both the video games and the general fictional world of Pokémon, stems from the hobby of insect collecting, a popular pastime which Pokémon executive director Satoshi Tajiri had enjoyed as a child.[4] Players of the games are designated as Pokémon Trainers, and the two general goals (in most Pokémon games) for such Trainers are: to complete the Pokédex by collecting all of the available Pokémon species found in the fictional region where that game takes place; and to train a team of powerful Pokémon from those they have caught to compete against teams owned by other Trainers, and eventually become the strongest Trainer, the Pokémon Master. These themes of collecting, training, and battling are present in almost every version of the Pokémon franchise, including the video games, the anime and manga series, and the Pokémon Trading Card Game.
In most incarnations of the fictional Pokémon universe, a Trainer that encounters a wild Pokémon is able to capture that Pokémon by throwing a specially designed, mass-producible tool called a Poké Ball at it. If the Pokémon is unable to escape the confines of the Poké Ball, that Pokémon is officially considered under the ownership of that Trainer, and it will obey whatever commands its new master and/or friend (depending on how that trainer treats Pokémon in general) issues to it from that point onward, unless the Trainer demonstrates enough of a lack of experience that the Pokémon would rather act on its own accord. Trainers can send out any of their Pokémon to wage non-lethal battles against Pokémon; if the opposing Pokémon is wild, the Trainer can capture that Pokémon with a Poké Ball, increasing his or her collection of creatures. (Pokémon already owned by other Trainers cannot be captured, except under special circumstances in certain games.) If a Pokémon fully defeats an opponent in battle so that the opponent is knocked out ("faints"), the winning Pokémon gains experience and may level up. When leveling up, the Pokémon's statistics ("stats") of battling aptitude increase, including Attack, Speed, and so on. From time to time the Pokémon may also learn new moves, which are techniques used in battle. In addition, many species of Pokémon possess the ability to undergo a form of metamorphosis and transform into a similar but stronger species of Pokémon. This is a process called evolution.
In the main series, each game's single-player mode requires the Trainer to raise a team of Pokémon to defeat many non-player character Trainers and their Pokémon. Each game lays out a somewhat linear path through a specific region of the Pokémon world for the Trainer to journey through, completing events and battling opponents along the way. Each game features eight especially powerful Trainers, referred to as Gym Leaders, that the Trainer must each defeat in order to progress. As a reward, the Trainer receives a Gym Badge, and once all eight badges are collected, that Trainer is eligible to challenge the region's Pokémon League, where four immensely talented trainers (referred to collectively as the "Elite Four") challenge the Trainer to four Pokémon battles in succession. If the trainer can overcome this gauntlet, he or she must then challenge the Regional Champion, the master Trainer who had previously defeated the Elite Four. Any Trainer who wins this last battle becomes the new champion and gains the title of Pokémon Master.
In the Super Smash Bros. series
Super Smash Bros.
Pikachu in Super Smash Bros
In Super Smash Bros., two Pokémon are playable characters — the popular Pikachu and Jigglypuff. A Pokémon stage is also in the game, named Saffron City.
Poké Balls are also in the game as items. When used, one out of 13 possible Pokémon can be summoned, each capable of dealing damage to opponents (With the exception of Mew and Goldeen).
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Mewtwo as he appears in Super Smash Bros. Melee
In Super Smash Bros. Melee, four Pokémon are playable characters — the returning characters Pikachu and Jigglypuff plus Pichu, and Mewtwo. Two Pokémon stages are in the game — Pokémon Stadium and Poké Floats.
Poké Balls also return in Melee. When used, one out of 29 possible Pokémon can be summoned. About 60 Pokémon related trophies also appear in the game.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Pikachu and Jigglypuff are once again playable, along with Lucario, and Pokémon Trainer, who uses Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard when fighting. There are three Pokémon stages in the game - Pokémon Stadium 2, Spear Pillar, and Melee's Pokémon Stadium
For a third time, Poké Balls return. Twenty-nine Pokémon (thirty if you count both Latias and Latios) all in the game.[5]
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U
Nintendo 3DS version
In the 3DS Version which has the same characters as the Wii U Version has the Pokémon stages Prism Tower and N's Castle so far.
Wii U Version
In the Wii U Version, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Charizard (Split from Pokemon Trainer) and Mewtwo (DLC) are all returning veterans from Brawl. In this game Greninja from 'Pokémon X and Y' joins Smash Bros. The Pokémon stages for the Wii U version are Kalos Pokémon League and Pokémon Stadium 2.
Trivia
- Not counting Mario spinoffs, Pokemon is the only franchise that has had a new representative in every iteration.
References
- Books
- Tobin, Joseph, ed. Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press., February, 2004. ISBN 0-8223-3287-6.
- Notes
- ↑ Boyes, Emma (2007-01-10). UK paper names top game franchises. GameSpot. GameSpot UK. Retrieved on 2007-02-26.
- ↑ Behrens, Matt (2006-12-01). Nintendo sales through end of November revealed. N-Sider. N-Sider Media. Retrieved on 2006-12-01.
- ↑ Swider, Matt. The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target. Gaming Target. Gaming Target. Retrieved on 2007-02-28.
- ↑ "The Ultimate Game Freak: Interview with Satoshi Tajiri", TimeAsia (Waybacked]).
- ↑ Poké Balls. Smash Bros. DOJO!!. smashbros.com. Retrieved on 2007-11-12.
See also
- List of Pokémon in the Super Smash Bros. series
- List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros.
- List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee
- List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Brawl
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This page uses content from Wikipedia. The original article was at Pokémon. The list of authors can be seen in the page history. As with Smashpedia, the text of Wikipedia is available under the GNU Free Documentation License. |