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VandalsEdit

Use this section to list vandals that need discipline. Please add them below and sign (~~~~) your comments. Include a legitimate reason why they need banning. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can get them banned. Users and IPs that are taken care of will be crossed out like so.

NOTE: Please do not list anonymous IPs if there were only a few minor offenses. If there are major offenses (blanking pages, personal attacks, derogatory/offensive words, inserting loads of gibberish, etc.) then please list the vandals, even if they've only done it once.
For registered accounts, list them if their only contributions were vandalism. In this case, it doesn't matter how many times nor how bad the vandalism has been. A vandal account is a vandal account and must be shut down immediately.

Example1: User "Vandal123" made a joke page titled "TITLE HERE". FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Example2: IP 12.345.678 blanked six smasher pages, all members of the same crew. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


I cleaned up some vandalisim on the Blast Through article. - Amycats2 (talk) 02:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

This section is for reporting vandals. Please read directions. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 09:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

im sorry for tagging that page for deletion, FyreNWater, but that page was one of my failed attempts to make a file. Xtrme (talk) 22:23, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

This section is for reporti- You know what, forget formality. When a warning for the same mistake is right above your post, I'm not even gonna try to be nice about it. Why in the world did you talk about page deletions in a section clearly labeled "Vandals"? There's even friggin' directions above and below for your convenience. UR DOIN IT RONG. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 08:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Trophy Edit

So, I stumbled across you and Randal's old conversation about creating Smash Trophies, and was wondering how much something like that would cost to get made for a tournament we're planning? We wouldn't need it until around late October or Early November, but I know it's always good to get these things set up in advance. We're not looking at anything big; about eight to ten inches tall. I just figured I'd reach out to another Smasher who is trying to make it as an artist. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 22:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, it depends on a few things: what materials, what size, how many, and where it's going to be shipped? I won't be taking any 3D art classes, so I'm basically limited to clay and (*snort*) papier-mâché. Lemme know of some details and I can throw you a ballpark estimate for the price. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 06:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Clay would be fine, I think we'd rather not go with papier-mâché. We're looking for something in the range of about a four to six inch (radius) base and about eight to ten inches tall. As for the design, really any Brawl character is fine. Are there any characters that are easier (and/or cheaper) to make than others? Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 13:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
As with all things, the more detail it has, the longer it takes, and the more expensive it will be. Then again, a Smash Ball trophy is a whole lot less impressive then, say, a Samus trophy. With the size you've given me, I would say that the price could range anywhere from $10-$30 (minus S+H), depending on complexity. And speaking of Samus, I'd been wanting to create a figurine of her anyway, so I might charge less for that. Let me know what you're thinking of and we can work things out. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry I forgot to keep you updated. We are definitely interested in at least one trophy. If Smaus is the character you would like to do, that would be fine. I know from experience that artists work better when it's what they like doing. The only thing we would want is to somehow have the words "University of Iowa Smash Championship Series" and something about 1st place (or "You're Winner !"). We may also be interested in a few Smash Ball trophies, but I'd have to talk to the other organizer before I can get a firm answer on that. Again, I'm sorry I wasn't able to get back to you sooner. My folks had an operation, and I was taking care of them and completely forgot about this. Thanks for all your help. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 13:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about assuming that you just ignored me. I've had a bad track record with people who go as far as getting initial sketches, then totally disappear and never respond. I would have reminded you more nicely had I not dealt with crap for the past 5 years or so. Take as much time as you need, as long as you keep me updated. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 06:59, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I understand. I've had the same things with some commissions. Anyway, I'm going to talk to my co-host tonight, and I'll try to get more details on what we need. We really won't need it till October, but I'd like to be able to give you a good amount of time so you don't feel rushed. Thanks. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 14:34, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Brawl Edit

Would you like to Brawl sometime? Zmario (talk) 09:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I actually don't own the game yet. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 10:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Really? Wow, thats a shock. When you do get it would you like to Brawl then? Zmario (talk) 10:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Dunno, it depends on if I ever get around to getting a Wii and getting a copy of Brawl. As for now, I'm fine with playing my friend's copy. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 11:00, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

NinjaEdit

I created Ninja because before the massive spoilers, he was known as Ninja in Metal Gear Solid. I know, I've beaten the whole game. I thought the redirect was relevant.- Gargomon251 (talk) 12:07, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's been a long while and stuff like this tends to drop out of the whole "spoilers" thing. It's also why we don't tag the Zelda/Shiek/Tetra thing as spoilers, either. I really doubt that anyone will be searching for "Ninja" on this wiki. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I never said it was still a spoiler, just that Cyber Ninja was his more commonly used name and I thought a redirect would be useful. -Gargomon251 (talk) 04:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
In that case, go on ahead and remake that page. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Smash CultEdit

Our team logo was deleted. Other crews have downright stupid images as their logos or "mascots", so why can't we have our own? The Gundam Kitty for one is a really stupid unrelated image and a crew is allowed to use that. At least ours had Smash Bros. characters on it! I would like to have our logo back. --Oxico (talk) 13:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Our crew page, Online Moguls, had a really cool banner that took my and hour to complete. It was erased. It had Ike, Captain Falcon, and Meta Knight. Zmario (talk) 13:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Logos and banners are not allowed on this site, and I've deleted the Gundam Kitty. I suggest you to make a separate site for your crew. Places like Freewebs, Geocities, and Tripod have free webhosting, so you can make your own website with little to no previous experience. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
We like it on SmashWiki. We moved all our dicussions though, if that helps. I amalso working on making it "more article, less personal website". Oh, I found ANOTHER image. Are we allowed to have our own smasher picture?

--Oxico (talk) 13:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This one is borderline. It should be on a smasher page (not a userpage), but it's still fine. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
So wait, we can have personal images for singular smashers, but not crews? Could we have seperate images for crews if the new namespace is created?--Oxico (talk) 12:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that crew banners count as advertisement. Smasher images are for "illustrative purposes", i.e. "this helps explain who the smasher is." FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
....an advirtisement? I just want to use it because it looks cool.--Oxico (talk) 14:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
All crew banners are considered advertisements, and thus cannot be displayed on the SmashWiki. Do what you want on a personal page, but articles cannot advertise, intentionally or not. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Pillow Rest Edit

I think that Pillow Rest is common enough term to warrant a page. It is a technique that most Jigglypuff players use where/when possible, it is quite effective, and I've seen the name in other places. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard of it before now, and I've been smashing for over 8 years - Gargomon251 (talk) 03:56, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
It was put up as a technique, which is pretty inaccurate. If you want, you can add a section about it in the Rest page, then make Pillow Rest redirect to that section. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Crew Namespace Edit

I've been talking to Randall about closing the crew namespace discussion. At the present, none of the sysops involved are behind it, but I wanted to make sure that you knew it was going to close soon in case you have anything to add to the discussion. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 15:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't really care how it turns out, as long as the majority of users are okay with it. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Template Edit

Can you help me make a template for my wikia please? Its called Mischief Makers Wiki. Thanks in advance. Zmario (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have experience in making templates. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 05:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay thanks for trying to help. Do you know anyone who can do templates? Zmario (talk) 10:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Sky2042 is really good at them, if I can recall correctly. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 22:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Grandfather Turnips Edit

Why did you delete this page without even discussing it? Regardless of any disagreement in your feelings, or even the policies, now the information is gone. Even if you didn't agree with certain aspects of the article, we could have at least merged a few key facts into a related page; but now that is not an option, as there is no remaining record of any of the data that was ever on that page (unless it is somewhere that I'm unaware of).

I do not mean to attack you personally, but I am very distraught and disheartened, not only by the loss of this particular page, but by the ability for anyone in a wiki community to permanently remove all traces of an entire page, and even without presenting a case and arguing for it on the talk page.

As for the page in question: I do not feel that this information is trivial at all. I feel that it is quite valid. Although, even if it were trivial, that would still not necessarily be grounds for deletion. This is in-depth information regarding one of Peach's special moves, and is not something that should be removed, but indulged.

-Besides, now there's no reason for another user not to just recreate the page again; as they wont even be able to read opinions on why one should or shouldn't exist. -and they may also feel as disappointed as I do now, if it is again deleted without input.

I am really quite displeased and saddened about this incident, as this kind of article was exactly the kind I would have liked to see more of on the site, and as I am discouraged from pouring my time and effort into a system that can simply disregard them at any time, without conversation. In any case, I have little idea how to proceed, and was very much hoping that you could offer some impartial advice on what (if any) options I might take in my appeal. -Thank you very much. Zixor (talk) 20:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It's trivial. End of story. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 05:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Now hold on, how are those turnips any more trivial than the Waddle Doos and Gordos that Dedede throws? Just because it's not important to the franchise doesn't mean it's "trivial". It's a very rare, very powerful item. And all attack effects must be listed, just like Green Missile's misfires and the dud Electrodes.- Gargomon251 (talk) 13:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a big difference between listing them under the attack page and them having their own page. Add in the fact that a google search on "grandfather turnips" give a total of four smash relevant links, two of witch are archived pages on this wiki that are only accessible by sysops. The other two are on the Smash Boards. In one of them, the person immediately clarifies what a "grandfather turnip" is. In the other, the next person asks, "what's a grandfather turnip?" Hardly a well accepted nickname for something quite trivial to begin with. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 17:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I never said I wanted a whole page for it, but there was no reason the information couldn't be merged. - Gargomon251 (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much; I will integrate this information into another article. -What is your email? Zixor (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

A more efficient method would be for you to give me an e-mail address so I can just send you the stuff you need. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

marcilj@comcast.net. Zixor (talk) 08:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

ClashEdit

thx for taking those things, off... i forgot to, LOL! oh and thanks for protecting the subspace template :) Kperfekt722 (talk) 10:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

ThanksEdit

Well I see you have deleted the pages I made with the typos...I thank you for your patience with my lack of typing skills. It will not happen again.--Oxico (talk) 21:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

It's okay, we all make mistakes. I suggest you double-check next time! FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Ummm Edit

Just asking but do you have a youtube account? Zmario (talk) 20:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes. And if you looked on my userpage, you wouldn't have needed to ask. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 20:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I do apologize about two comments I put on that talk page. Believe me when I say this but I am easy to frustrate. Some things on that talk page are absurd, but the RPG thing makes sense. B-52 (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

bwagahagah?!?!?!Edit

quick unban him plz!!! we were talking lol just messing around! lol, hes probably all "WTF?!?!" lol Kperfekt722 (talk) 07:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

*sigh*. Hate messages and profanity are never allowed. I'll shorten his ban, but he needs to learn not to use that kind of language. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
ouch. how long will he be gone? Kperfekt722 (talk) 07:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
It was going to be a day, but he pissed me off big time, so it's three days. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
tee-hee, he pissed you off and you torched him haha. you got wifi yet? Kperfekt722 (talk) 07:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
It's not funny, I'm really pissed off that he thought I was a while male or something, just because I had a position of power. Also, I don't even have a Wii yet. I'll let everyone know when I do. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
mm, maybe he should have read those big letters that read "OMG YOUR A GIRL?" on your user page lol. what is a "while male"? im pretty shure is was a typo. oh and BTW, KING DeDeDe's PINK OUTFIT OWNS YOSHI AND SAMUS'S *runs away and shields face* Kperfekt722 (talk) 08:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Erm, yeah. "White male". Dedede is too slow for my taste, anyway. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 08:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
oh. well, its still a beast costume! LOL! i like MK's pink variation as well, becuz it looks like tye-dye. Kperfekt722 (talk) 08:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

THANK YOU!Edit

for finally protecting the super smash clash article. ive been asking for weeks :) Kperfekt722 (talk) 07:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Really? I guess you've been asking the wrong people or in the wrong places. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
actually i have been more "complaining" about it, haha. so i guess you and BNK are kool now huh? Kperfekt722 (talk) 08:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I try not to hold grudges. Things worked out, so it's good. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 08:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Blocks Edit

The IP you blocked that started in 203 has been the same person switching computers or IPs in the same small area. If s/he continues, would you like me to calculate a range block to shut him/her down? As a side note, the trophy thing is still on; I should have specifics in a week. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

It depends on how many IPs this person has been hopping. Likely, they're not that dedicated and just give up after a few days. If it gets bad, then I think carpet bombing the IPs in the area would be safe. Also, thanks for keeping me updated on the trophy thing. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 07:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hiya :^) Edit

Hello. I know I'm the last person you wanna chat with right now, but again, I'm sorry.

I severely regret misjudging and underestimating you. That's something you just don't do to anyone, especially a female.

When you get a Wii and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, expect a fight from me... well after you mastered the controls and stuff. They aren't the same as in Melee.

Is it alright if we could forget our past fued and become friends? :) Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 20:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I'm all for forgiveness. You apologized, learned from mistakes, and it's all good. I don't think I'll be getting a Wii nor SSBB anytime soon, but I'll basically let everyone know when I do get it. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 21:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
That's cool. It feels good to have two Sysops on my side. --Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 01:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Enough is Enough Edit

Im tired of Randll00. Hes blocking everyone for speaking their own opinions about him. HE ALREADY BLOCKED THREE OF MY COOLEST FRIENDS ON HERE! What are you gonig to do about this? Sit back and sip tea? NO! I want to see justice serve and I know you and CLarinet Hawk are the best sysops so you two can help me out the most. We are all tired of Randall's behavier and we DEMAND that we see a brighter light towards this situation. I dont want to be banned but I don't want to see my friends get kicked out of this site for speaking their own opinions. Thats a RIGHT in the United States. No one has the righjt to tell you how to act or behave because peopel act different. I really hope you understand this and I hope you will take the appropriate steps to handle this situation calmy without just yelling at everyone. Thanks for your understandment in this long paragraph but im just to upset to handle this calmy. Kperfekt, Galaxia, and Blue NinjaKoopa are really good users and i wish that they would eb unblocked so we can help out the wikia. Don't forget that users banned from this site could give this site a bad name and Randall will get all this hate mail. i really hope to see this arguement cone to an end but I really would like for some justice to be served. Once again thank you for your time in reading this and I hope you plan to take greater action. Zmario (talk) 10:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll answer, even if Silver does not.
  1. The original person banned (Blue) was banned for impersonating Randall. Or another of his friends. The block was appropriate in my opinion. At a length of three months, it would have given enough time for Blue to think about his actions.
  2. What Blue failed to do was react in an appropriate manner. He essentially told Randall to fuck off (pardon the language Silver).
  3. The ban was extended. When Galaxia and KPerfect reacted similarly to Blue, Randall extended Blue's ban to them. Swearing at anyone for any reason is not appropriate. When they similarly made the worst of being banned, their block was extended to infinitum, as was Blue's.
  4. Randall gave each of them, except for Blue, the chance to redeem their block. They chose not to take it. Kperfect removed the message. I haven't checked Galaxia's talk page yet.
All in all, none of them were adding to the wiki as it was. None of you so much as touched the main space for appropriate reasons. Hence, you were not adding to the wiki. As for basic "Rights" in the United States, free speech only applies to the federal and state governments. Private entities are not held to the same standard. Furthermore, they were not blocked for their opinions. They were blocked for how they said them.
If you think I missed something, feel free to add it. But that's how I see it. --Sky (t · c · w) 19:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Essentially, never ever tell anyone with power to "f*ck off". I'm all for free speech, but that does not include personal attacks nor privately-owned things. If they were given a chance to fix things but passed, I can't do anything about it. Typically people can only be unbanned by the admin that banned them in the first place, and since those three basically burned down the bridge, I can't help. They should have thought about it before they pissed off Randall. He's harsh, but he does his job well. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I go for a month or so and next thing I know everyone's getting blocked! Can't live without me I suppose :P. But..In all honesty, I can't think of any reason to redeem their blocks, and if you did, then their tear-to-the-eye farewell speeches would have been worthless! But...er, think about it anyway. Clearly they care a bit too much about being part of this wiki. Ike6481 (talk) 14:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

User:Shadowcrest/policyEdit

As a sysop, I expect you to be interested in benefitting the community- and I wholeheartedly believe that the implementation of all of the proposed policies/other administration-related things listed on that page would benefit the wiki. It would be greatly appreciated if you would point out any issues you have with any of the things listed on that page, and whether or not you think any or all of them should be implemented, and if not, why not.

Of course, I realize you have a life and other things to attend to- I don't expect this to be completed overnight ;)

Whenever you get the chance, it would be great if you would comment on them.

Thanks, --Shadowcrest 02:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Brawl Taunts Edit

There is this video on youtube called "Brawl Taunts" and I was wondering if I could make an article about it. Should I because we have articles on many youtube things such as the The Wrath of Giga Bowser and Smashtasm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zmario (talkcontribs)

No, that thing is just memes and nonsense. It doesn't involve stuff that affects the Smash community, like tiers or "online" battles. And frankly, I'm sick of those videos. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 01:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I--

Well, I'll just bite my tongue on this one.

...Meaning that I shouldn't have posted this. Cafinator (talk) 05:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

NEWGROUNDS NOT YOUTUBE!!!!!!!!!!Smorekingxg456 (talk) 20:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, i get angry when people say stuff was on youtube when it was really on newgrounds(see my page for the newgrounds brawl taunts) Smorekingxg456 (talk) 20:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Protection Edit

Thank you for protecting Blue Ninjakoopa's talk page. Maybe now the wiki can get a little peace? I know it wasn't right of me to flame with him. I apologize. (Wolf O'Donnell (talk · contributions) 05:17, 16 August 2008 (UTC))

Needs moar protection though. --Shadowcrest 21:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Person Edit

Sorry, you've got the wrong guy. I was the guy who marked it for possible deletion. I don't blame you, I posted on it more than the guy who made it did. Cafinator (talk) 05:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, it's alright. Cafinator (talk) 12:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

OK. Cafinator (talk) 13:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Xtrme Edit

im not quite sure of it, but i think Xtrme told me that Masta (the guy who made that smasher: masta page) is Extrme, but on a different account JtM =^] (talk) 22:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Either way, it's very suspicious. There have been many blankings, as well as contributions by another user. Deletion tags (aside from obvious speedy deletions) always need a valid reason. FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 22:34, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Why? Edit

Simple headline, simple question, why were GalaxiaD and Kperfekt blocked? I get some impersonating thing happened on some other website and now, suddenly, they are blocked, so, I was wondering if you could explain please Ike6481 (talk) 20:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

The impersonator was Blue Koopa... whatever. When that happened, the other two flooded a sysop with hate mail, refused to acknowledge they did anything wrong, threw derogatory names everywhere, then attacked me when I was trying to help, and now are causing a huge uproar. A more fitting question should be, "Why do people still think they didn't do anything wrong?" or "When the f*ck is this BS going to die down?" FyreNWater - (TalkContributions ) 03:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
It'll die down when the bans become permanent. I mean, since the permanent bans were overruled, can anybody show me ONE piece of evidence that it's better now? Nope, didn't think so. :^) --RJM Talk 13:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh right, fair enough, well, if that is the case, then I have nothing more to say.Ike6481 (talk) 15:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Half of this bs is backlash from people saying bans you gave were unfair, Randall. Permanent bans would only silence people if you banned everyone who made a comment against you... and then there would still be QQfests all over people's talk page. Permabans aren't the answer to everything. --Shadowcrest 20:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
But you see, they weren't unfair and if they were permanent in the first place, none of this would be happening and we would be able to focus on the actual wiki. --RJM Talk 21:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Randall, the permanent bans were the reason for this in the first place. And I believe I recall you banning two Users that were innocent of your charges. Luckily Charitwo was there. MarioGalaxy {talk} 21:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
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