User talk:Clarinet Hawk/Archive 3

Vandals
'''Please list the names/IP's of potential vandals here. Also, if possible, tell me the page(s) they vandalized so that I can verify the claim and assess the damage. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)'''

Vandalism Battlefield (SSBB), Super Dragon, Yoshi (SSBB). - Hatake91 (talk) 16:58, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

You're welcomePikachuisthebestpersoninthewholeworldandshouldbetoptierdefinately (talk) 16:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

70.253.203.97 vandalized a talk page. I fixed it, but I just thought I should tell you this.--Oxico (talk) 14:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

User:76.119.60.163 vandalized the page Super Sonic. I already removed his changes, but I thought it would be better if I tell you. Xeze (talk) 20:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Alright
You can delete the one I have on Smashville. If you need help, just ask me. I'm very knowledgable. Also, check out my page to see my code. User:Blue Ninjakoopa

uh-huh
yayyy a new archive!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM NOT THE FIRST TO EDIT IT!!! *runs to go hang himself* LOL! wassup with you? Kperfekt722 (talk) 23:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you again
I'm sorry I snapped. I was angry with my sibling for eating my chicken (nobody eats my chicken). I don't play for money, and if items are involved, I might lose (only against a computer player). You along with others have shown me great kindness. Thank you very much. Let us be friends, not enemies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue Ninjakoopa (talk • contribs) 02:26, 30 July 2008
 * "Pro" is a designation of a player who plays for money. In most cases they are sponsored by an organization or game store.  I understand that you may be a good player.  There are some players who are quite good that are not pros.  For example, Bobby Jones was one of the best golfers ever, but he never played for a sponsor or accepted purse money, therefore he was not a pro.  We use semi-pro and Pro-am to designate players who feel that they are at a high level of play.  This way, we don't have to judge anyone.  The whole designation thing was around before I even arrived on this wiki (and long before I was a sysop).  We've always asked for a sponsor or for tournament results for Smashers who claim to be pros.  In no way is this a judgment on your skill, as I could not do that having not ever played you.  It is simply a regulation that we enforce to keep the content of this wiki up to a high standard.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 03:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It happened again...
I'm thinking we should disable the SLAPAHO account or just start massive blocking and deletion because the random, inconsiderate, and unconstructive ridicule is getting to my nerves. This time it's the second friendly just got called 'terrible'.

Apparently, too, I'm not the only one who notices the deficiencies in the smash community. An article on the N-sider, a Nintendo website, talked about how cruel the Smash Community can be. It's just been so frequent it's finally starting to bother me.

Either that or you need to be it's warden for a bit so I can cool down. At the very least, no more friendlies, because those are both the lowest viewed and the highest ridiculed. See, though, aside from the friendlies, and particularly the first Epic, has been getting a decent amount of views and only positive remarks. I personally can't wait for the second epic: 'ROB unhinged: Raise the Roof'. I checked out the music video for the 1997 rap song 'Raise the Roof' on Youtube. It's perfect. Semicolon (talk) 13:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I know you're right, I just can't stand the community sometimes. I'm generally central casting and patient, but lord, they don't give up. Semicolon (talk) 18:23, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Why I Hate Brawl
I could write a mid-term paper on this. First of all this game is cheap. Cheap character, cheap moves, cheap items, cheap Final Smash, CHEAP EVRYTHING. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU CANT DO A FREAKING THING. Everyone can read you like and open book. Theres too much lag, moves that make you wide opened, weak characters, no balanced characters, everythngi in Brawl Is cheap. You can kill someone at 0% after you come back from a life. Cheap characters like ROB, Pit, and EXPECIALLY META KNIGHT. Zmario (talk) 00:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Boston Eagles
It was just a random spoofy of your name. Since when were Oboes different Clarinets? And your university sports the Mascot of a Hawk? btw who thought of your crew name SLAPAHO?Zexas A. (talk) 02:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. So Oboes=not you're best. Hawks=Iowa University. SLAPAHO regarding a football team name, lulz. That's facts to learn. I would brawl you, but I'd have to wait till next week, since I'm going somewhere for a week tomorrow. Oh well, I'll just take your friend code. Your speech on Zmario's page is a bit of lesson learning. Nothing better heard from a sysop I suppose. My cheap friend cheaps me with Pikachu. THUNDER! SKULL BASH! Thing is, why does Pikachu know skull bash? The Pikachu is old since skull bash was a TM back in Red and Blue, hereby stating why Pikachu knows it. Meh, wonder why I'm talking about Pikachu all of a sudden. Zexas A. (talk) 02:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the linkage. Video game information is just the thing that interests me. Also, is it possible to show off an image with an off-site link? It's problematic with the bubble on my userpage. Ty. Zexas A. (talk) 03:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

No worries
It's alright. I'm sure if we played regularly you would have handed me my own shell. Good fights though. Oh and who the heck is Joey and why is he so angry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue Ninjakoopa (talk • contribs) 02:18, 31 July 2008

Stage Spike
If the stage spike guard break doesn't count on its own, can it be put in with other guard breaks? I use Meta Knight more than on occasion, and that is my main guard break, and as you know, stage spikes are quite potent.--Oxico (talk) 15:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem I have with it is that it is an entirely situational version of the uppercut guard break. There is noting different in the execution of it from a normal uppercut break.  It just happens to be where there is an edge of the stage.  The stage-spike itself is not assisting you in the guard break, so I don't really think it counts...  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah...I see...I still put the def. of Stage Spike as a Guard Break.--Oxico (talk) 19:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh sorry about the caps lock thing. I wanted to see what it would be like editing smashwiki using my wii. Unfortunately, it made the redirect all caps. I dunno why, and I couldn't stop it from doing that.--Oxico (talk) 00:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Alright
I understand why my list of aerial combinations was deleted, but was it really necessary to delete all my other edits?-- Mario, the classic man of Nintendo

Wanna Brawl?
Sup? I'm Shade, and I've really been wanting to brawl you for a while now. So yeah, my code's on my userpage. I'm on the Cult of Personality's proboards page more often than this site, so send me a PM whenever you wanna brawl since you've got that account on there. Aight, peace. Shade487z (talk) 07:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I would too. If possible. You can contact me on my userpage here or in a PM on Proboards. Incidentally, who is the "known vandal"? Runer5h (talk) 23:16, 3 August 2008 (UTC)Runer5h
 * To both of you, sorry I didn't get back sooner. I'm going to wait to brawl people over wi-fi until after I move.  I'm having trouble with the connection where I am now, and I'm pretty sure it will be better when I get into my apartment.  As a bonus, Ax is my roommate, so you'll be able to brawl him as well.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Thanks
Yeah no problem. Glad we're finally done, even if it took us 5 months lol. Anyway, I'm just gonna check the histories of the old pages just to double check their histories were merged and restored then I'll probably delete them as they're useless redirects now.--Richard 21:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I'll start at the bottom then.--Richard 21:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

pls help
u told me i should put "smasher" before i edit a articel but when iam doing this u wont find the articel when u look for it. does it just need time? pls for response. greets Broken Bone
 * If you feel it is important, you can put a redirect in the main namespace as long as that redirect does not conflict with a real main namespace page. For example, Smasher:BigBoy could have a page simply called BigBoy with the content of #REDIRECTSmasher:BigBoy .  However, Smasher:TStick may not do this, as TStick by itself is a legit main namespace article.  The point of the smasher namespace is to keep all the random articles about smashers that no one has ever heard of from being included in the random searches and in the article count.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 04:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Good News From Blue
Yo, Hawk! I found out that you can Guard Break with Mr. Game & Watch's up aerial. Here's how it works, say someone like Jigglypuff or Falco tries to spike you (as Mr G&W), you can use his up aerial and shoot them in the air. This works best on Floaty characters, these characters are also good at performing them.

I need your permission to put this in as a prime example of guard breaking. Here are some other good Uairs:
 * 1) R.O.B.'s
 * 2) Shiek's
 * 3) Zelda's
 * 4) Wario's
 * 5) Snake's
 * 6) Ganondorf's
 * 7) Captain Falcon's
 * 8) Kirby's, Meta Knight's, Charizard's and Pit's (if they have some jumps left)
 * 9) Ice Climbers'
 * 10) Toon Link's
 * 11) Link's

Then there are the characters the are good at guard breaking with their up special moves. A prime example is Zero Suit Samus's.Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 12:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We cover the up-aerial and the up special as types of guard breaks. There's no need to list all of the possible attacks that could break a guard.  Also, up aerials can be pretty ineffective as guard breaks because they force you to fall further down during the attack, thus limiting your recovery options and increasing your chances to be edge guarded by extension.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 15:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The SSC
I'm not sure if this will help at all about the crew war right now, but if we need it, here is there "AllisBrawl" account JtM =^&#93; (talk) 23:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: KOB
Doesn't SephirothKen have a theory about male Peach mains? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Runer5h (talk • contribs) 20:26, 5 August 2008
 * Yes, but don't get cocky. Ken can say what he wants because he beats everyone that challenges him.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 20:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

argh...
fine... sorry... Kperfekt722 (talk) 00:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

welcome template
sorry about the welcome template changing, i had just never got it and had always wanted it. Sorry again JtM =^&#93; (talk) 01:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Grrr...
Fine... I'm just tryin' to help.Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 04:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

SSB
Hello clarinet hawk.I see you are obviously a good smash player, and you played some with kirby on the original smash bros, so I was wondering if you could get me a list of the dash speeds for that game(the original ssb)??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.61.30.97 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 6 August 2008
 * Well, I never played competitively during the original so I don't know the exact figures. I can do the research, but that'll have to wait until the end of August.  I'll get the information up on here when I have it.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 19:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Cool man, thanks.I have looked all over, and can't find it.And people seem to think that the speeds co-relate to brawl, and that just isn't true.DK isn't as fast, kirby is faster, and so is samus, I think.But anyway, yeah, whenever you think you'll have time to do the research.Peace! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.61.29.81 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 7 August 2008

Some Things
I was a split second behind you in redirecting that page. I had an edit conflict and it was you. Any way, I wanted to discuss something. I was thinking we create a new term...True Spike. Mostly (almost always) when people talk about Spikes, they are talking about Meteor Smashes. Also, the technique Stage Spike is not really a spike, but a Meteor Smash. So I was thinking calling ACTUAL spikes True Spikes to avoid confusion. Can that be done?--Oxico (talk) 22:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm really not sure how we'd define that type of term. For example, would Marth's d-air in Melee not count since it can go at an almost 45 degree angle?  Is it only for straight down spikes?  If the answer to either of these is yes, it seems kind of wishy-washy to have the term as it would rule out some of the most effective spikes in the Melee metagame.  Brawl is better about most spikes going almost straight down, but there is still a good amount of ambiguity.  I would like to see some clarification made on the subject of spikes, but it's not my top priority at the moment, even in the case of clarifying terms.  Don't do anything to the wiki yet, but try and come up with a clearer and more inclusive definition and I'll look into it.  As for now, I'm trying to clarify some information on Sacrificial KO's.  Check the Brawl FAQ's at gameFAQs in a few weeks to see what I'm up to.  Let me know when you have a better definition.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me clarify what I meant. On SmashWiki the definition of a spike is a Meteor smash that cannot be meteor cancelled. Well, there are no spikes in brawl due to the fact that all former spikes can be meteor cancelled. But still, most Meteor Smashes are being refered to as spikes on many pages, despite the facts they are not really spikes. So I think the current Spike page should just become a redirect page to the Meteor Smash page and have all the Spikes on the former spike page be called True Spikes instead. Does that clarify things?--Oxico (talk) 23:12, 28 July 2008 (UTC) PS Good luck with the Sacrificial KO page...I made that page you know...me ang Gargomon251.

I wanted to show you this again because I believe this is a pressing matter to be addressed. All I need is a yes and I will turn the spike page into a redirect page to Meteor Smash and created a True Spike page for what was formerly the Spike page. --Oxico (talk) 14:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll agree that this is an important issue, but not a time sensitive one. Give me till the end of the week.  I want to check the other Smash areas so that our definitions can be consistent with what is commonly accepted, if that is anything at all.  I'll let you know my decision by Saturday.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

You're time ran up a while ago CH and I have been waiting...so can I go through with it or not?--Oxico (talk) 13:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a good idea. However, lets not make it into a new page, but add it as a section in the spike.  Considering that the whole thing is kind of nebulous, I'm going to merge all the pages (meteor smash, spike, etc.) when I get around to it.  Sorry about not getting back to you sooner.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 17:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you brought up this issue, Oxico, because this confuses a lot of smashers. Before Brawl, there was a definite distinction between a spike and a meteor smash, but CH is right to point out that the elimination of meteor-cancelling changes things a little. Prior to Melee, they weren't defined--Melee gave a definition to a meteor smash, but never defined spikes. Now, the only "official" source that defines an attack with a downward trajectory is still Melee.
 * I am actually of the opinion that these articles should be merged, but one thing does need to be checked: can someone run a 1-stock with Falco in Melee, d-air the CPU for a KO and check your Bonus awards to see if you get 800 points for a Meteor Smash? I'll do that when I get home if I get a chance and if no one beats me to it. Either way, per the DOJO, Sakurai has been calling any downward attack a meteor smash in Brawl since the Samus info came out with no mention of a "meteor cancel".
 * Which I guess is something I should clarify...or at least see if people agree with me. I was just reading the meteor cancel article and it (and the earlier part of this discussion actually) seems to suggest that you can meteor cancel ALL meteor smashes in Brawl. In actuality, you CANNOT meteor cancel AT ALL in Brawl.
 * The article says: "In Brawl, Meteor Cancels can still be performed, but can no longer be performed immediately after being hit." Well then it's not doing a very good job of cancelling is it? I mean, you still get meteored. What this article is describing right now is the way a "spike" behaved in Melee. Sure, you can "meteor cancel" a spike, so long as you don't have so much damage that you plummet to the bottom of the screen before coming out of your tumbling animation. I think a more realistic conclusion is that meteor-cancelling was removed entirely and now whether or not you survive a meteor smash is strictly based on what damage you're at when you get hit, as well as how quick you are to react if you have the chance to recover. Then it goes on to talk about stage spikes which aren't even mentioned in the spike article.
 * But anyway, not to get too sidetracked, I just think that at this stage of the game, a meteor smash is what you call any hit that sends you downwards and you can only meteor-cancel in Melee. That covers all the bases from 64 to Brawl with minimal confusion. -- RJM Talk 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Falco's d-air cannot be meteor canceled, nor do you get the bonus for it. I've checked and seen it referenced on gamefaqs and other places.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It might be true that there is no meteor canceling in brawl but there is some form of technique to abnormally survive from an otherwise deadly move at high percents. For example imagine this scenario, a Zelda at 120% is meteored off the edge in Final destination by a d-air from Diddy kong. Abnormally Zelda can still use her recovery but the momentum of meteor still continues on her but ends when she disappears... Normally wouldn't this be considered some form of meteor canceling due to the canceling of all momentum and saving her?This is different from regular recovering because the down momentum on Zelda is still going full speed until her recovery ends? Try this out in a brawl and see what I mean. - Hatake91 (talk) 23:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing abnormal about that. Its basic momentum vectors and physical properties of attacks combining.  And in this case, it doesn't matter if the move was a spike or a meteor smash anyway.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Lemme say one thing. So spikes are now meteor smashes but meteor smashes aren't spikes....? Nvm i understand now. So are we gonna call meteor smashes spikes, and the spikes in melee, are they gonna be true spikes?--Oxico (talk) 03:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Yo!
Out of all the commotion that's been going on over the summer, I just realized something important: we never got to fight! I already have you registered on my friend list, so don't worry about the whole FC thing. Mine is 4038-7385-7852. Please respond, because I hope to brawl you soon. - GalaxiaD (talk) 01:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Pros and Cons
So there wont be any Pros ans Cons? Because I feel it is quite a useful section. and how is the "attributes" information going to be determined? Phayz (talk) 15:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, for now I'm doing what I can to give a good overview of the pros and cons in prose, without getting too specific or biased. The idea is that we will detail what the character is capable of, and from there let people draw their own conclusions on the character.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Clones
Due to the edit wars going on and a certain irritable IP account, could you please semi protect the Clones page? - Hatake91 (talk) 15:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's hard to tell, since he consistently changed IPs, but it seemed like the Clones article was the only one he ever edited, and he changed massive parts without any discussion at all, even after multiple reverts. - Gargomon251 (talk) 00:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a computer with a slightly variable IP (or multiple computers on the same router). I don't want to try a range block on such a small instance, but I have protected the page.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Tournament invitation
Hey, Shade here. I got to thinking the other day and I think it's about time that our crew actually started doing something besides chatting and brawling with each other. So, we (well, mostly me) are gonna host a tournament for anyone on smashwiki to join. I know you won't brawl until you've finished moving, but we're going to wait a while before this tournament starts to make sure we have enough participants anyway, so I'm only asking right now to see if you'd be interested. BTW, Oxico left the crew and kicked us off the forums, so we've got a new place for members and nonmembers alike to chat. If you could, please make a new account on http://zdogg1.proboards58.com

Thanks. Shade487z (talk) 18:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

New Brawl
I see the Post-Merge Cleanup page has something on everything that belongs on a character page...somethings have been taken out, like the Special Movements sections I worked so hard to put on the pages. Can those be kept, PLEASE?--Oxico (talk) 22:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Once we've gotten all the pages standardized, talk to Randall about it; the project was his idea. The important points were to get rid of the subjective material and the incredibly long sections that had nothing to do with the fighter info.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

What's Up!?
Hiya :)

Haven't talked to you in a long time, so what's happenin'? Anything you need me to do? there has to be something --Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 21:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Team Combos
Man I come to you alot...you are a great source of wisdom and understanding. I hae another issue I want to take care of but I feel I need permission to make drastic changes. The team combo page is in need of alot of cleanup. My former crew and I put almost all moves possible moves that can be performed by two characters. The names we called them ar just our terms and don't need to be used on the page. But I feel this is far more organized and understandable. Here are the team combos:
 * Gang Up - First, one character performs some sort of capture move such as a grab, Yoshi's down air, or an infinite combo. The partner then uses a high power move (like a side smash) or a damaging move (like Fox's Blaster).
 * Mad Rush - Both partners use infinite combos such as Fox's, Falco's and Captain Falcon's Neutral attack, or Lucario's Aura Sphere on either side of the opponent.
 * Meteor Chain - The first partner chain grabs the opponent to the edge of the stage and the partner Meteor Smashes.
 * Staircase to Heaven - One character launches opponent up and the other does an aerial on them.
 * Smashing Smash - Launch opponent off stage to ally who meteor smashes them.
 * Flying Frenzy - Partners take turns juggling opponent.
 * Volley - Continuously hit oppponent back and forth beween partners.
 * Wobble - Partners take turns grabbing opponents and pummeling until the opponent squirms free. The partner grabs the free opponent again and starts again.
 * Own'd - Both partners use high power moves on the opponent.
 * Ups and DOWNs - One character sends the opponent in the sky, then the other hits them back down onto the stage with a Meteor Smash. Done repeadiately.
 * Tripping Turmoil - one player charges up a powerful move, the other causes the enemy to trip right into the powerful move.
 * Super Wall of Pain - Just like a normal Wall of Pain, only with two people instead of one. Two characters with a Wall of Pain combine their Wall of Pain, making it nearly impossible for the opponent(s) to survive.
 * Sky High - One character hits opponent right above partner and he uses up smash.
 * Killer Pursuit - One character uses his dash attack, followed immediately by the other character's dash attack. Repeatable.
 * Suicidal Bomber - A character with a Sacrificial KO goes off stage. The partner hits the opponent off stage where the Suicide KO-er performs their manuever.
 * All-Stall-Then-Fall - Two stall-then-fall characters space out perfectly and one plunges before the other. If the opponent dodges the seconds aims and has a high chance of hitting it.
 * Absolute Edgeguard - One person edgehogs at the same time the other person edgeguards.
 * These are all of them we came up with. It is OK if all can't be put on the page, but this is how I wanna recreate the Team Combos page.--Oxico (talk) 22:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Weight
A user called Blue Ninja Koopa (or something like that) and I are having a minor disagreement over the Weight page. Be the voice of reason here and tell me which set of weight classes sounds better: as opposed to: I will not tell you which of us is supporting whichever one so there is no bias (for me or him).--Oxico (talk) 00:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Very Heavy
 * Heavy
 * Medium
 * Light
 * Very Light
 * Super Heavyweight
 * Heavyweight
 * Middleweight
 * Lightweight
 * Featherweight


 * I'm partial to the first mostly because there is a clear movement from one to the next. With the second set, they are somewhat based on boxing weights, but leaving out some of the weight classes, so it appears that there is less continuity.  Also, what happened to the whole table of Melee weights.  Just because Brawl is out doesn't mean that Melee information is any less important on this wiki.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)