Forum:Ideas for new tier list tables

As you might have read, we are currently revamping the tier list tables into a very cool new format. Though the others and I have already created an outline, feel free to make your own suggestions here! Just create your own Tier List table and paste it below, then the other admins and I will comment on it. '''Remember, do not implement your table on the tier list article until the green light is given. We are still in the "research" stage of this, and it may take a while. Bear with us.''' Mr. Anon (talk) 17:37, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

i think that Peach should be the highest #1, then Zero-Suit Samus should be #2, with Sonic, Lucario, Kirby, King Dedede, Pikachu, & Luigi all being relatively high! as for the lowest it should be Ganondorf! well that's what i think Brawl's Tier list should be like! --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 04:48, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * That is not what I mean. Mr. Anon (talk) 04:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

With all due respect everybody, link should be given a bit more credit than he's being given. Sure not the best but near the bottom? Come on people he is a bit better then that- crisgecko

Are you kidding me, WaterKirby1994?! OK, King Dedede should be high (in fact the top character) and same with Kirby, but what the heck! Go check my tier list at the end of this page. You'll find Peach at the bottom of the tier list (second to last) with Lucario in the Very Low tiers. Of course, Pikachu is in the Top tier, but Luigi? He's only in the Middle tier. Ganondorf is way higher than last place (in the Upper tier), and please, Sonic is in the Very Low tier.

By the way, Ganondorf is already the lowest in the real 5th tier list for Brawl.

And Effigy, don't use bad language in your next suggestion!

What did you mean? i thought this was what you wanted! i gave you the 8 best characters in the game, & the worst character! anyway as for Mr. Game&Watch, Donkey Kong, Fox, Falco, Mario, Yoshi & Samus i place them directly below the top 8! --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 05:26, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're a fucking moron. Effigy 03:42, July 6, 2011 (EST)

I think that he means he wants you to make a table and then send it so he can see what your table looks like though the research into the tier looks like. --LexingtonChiodos 10:30, July 3, 2011 (USA)


 * I am not talking about the actual tier list itself. I am merely talking about the formatting. According to some users, the current tier list tables look ugly, just showing the picture of the character. That is why I am proposing that users give me ideas for the formatting. Mr. Anon (talk) 18:51, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

i was thinking of a 3D format. ( oh and im not logged in so hi )

Hmmm..I thought the formatting looked fine, not sure how to make it look more appealing than already :P  Aimers talk 03:09, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think the tier lists' pictures for each character should be enlarged, and have the characters' names underneath the picture. Alongside the character's name listed is the matchup average for that character. All these changes may be a bit too much and make the tier list too big so feel free to use one change but not the other. BloodyBoom (talk) 11:17, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I liked the way the tier list looked... I didnt think it was ugly.. just a tier list.

Here's an idea: leave the old-format tier lists up while you make the new format, then just replace the old when you're done with the new. I keep coming back to check the characters' locations on the lists, and I keep seeing "The tier lists aren't here right now lulz!" It's super-annoying. Is there any particular reason you can't have the old format up while you make the new one? Either way, many thanks to everyone who contributes to the site. You all rock. -D.J.R. (15 July 2011)

EDIT: Well, I feel silly. I found the list of all the tier lists as they've evolved over time - this list includes the most recent tiers for each game. I apologize for my ignorance. Here's the list, if anyone else out there is as blind as I am. (http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_NTSC_tier_lists) -D.J.R. (16 July 2011)

Hmmm... maybe it should be like this: the tier list should have bright colors for the high tiers and dark colors for the low tiers. Also, the tiers should be like this: God, Top, Upper, High, Middle, Low, Bottom and Negligible, each with stars next to them (expect the Negligible tier): seven stars for God: six stars for Top: five stars for Upper: four stars for High: three stars for Middle: two stars for Low: one star for Bottom: and zero stars for Negligible. And like BloodyBoom said, the characters should have their names underneath their picture and their average matchup score for that character. (I'm not logged in so sorry).

And that's my suggestion. Good work on the new format. You're gonna rock at this, Mr. Anon. I'm gonna love you so much. 17:54, July 16, 2011

Honestly, I don't think many people care what the tier list looks like. They only really care if the tier is good, and the good characters are at the top, and bad ones at the bottom.

That being said, Jigglypuff needs to be higher. Jigglypuff isn't the best character, I know that from experience. It's light and easy to kill. You know who else is like that? Mr. Game & Watch. And he was #11 on the last tier. Jigglypuff's moves are also just as or more powerful than Mr. Game & Watch's. The only thing Mr. Game & Watch can do well that Jigglypuff can't is rack up damage, flip sausages and throw oil.

Jigglypuff isn't great, but it isn't the third worst character. Think about it, Mr. Anon. 10:17, July 18, 2011

Quick question about ssb tier lists in general, Mr. Anon- would it be safe to say that tier lists are only pertinent to each characters highest levels of their metagames? Or, simply put, do tier lists matter if you're not a 'pro'? I have spent a LOT of time playing ssbb and put a lot of thought into it, and have come to the conclusion that tier lists should only be used as a guideline, or not taken into consideration at all for any player who is not at the level -or close- to, say, mew2king. Am I wrong?

I'm in agreement with the last guy. Half the "pros" at the smash games like mew2king we have never seen or heard of. On another note, multiple times, I have seen characters positions on the tier list at where they are because of one technique. Such as the Ice Climbers, who are at the A tier because of their chain grabbing potential. Chain grabbing isn't an easy thing to do. I've owned Brawl for almost five years, and I still have trouble with chain grabbing.

i actually beg to differ with his tier list Meta Knight although awesome has several drawbacks, which is why he shouldn't be #1, Peach should be, also as for Diddy Kong & Snake, they like Meta Knight are to highly ranked! Honestly players will always disagree about this stuff, so maybe we should just do away with the Tier List! Like i said Lucario, Luigi & Sonic are to lowly placed! --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 01:04, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

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I find these formatting suggestions interesting. I will say that I think the new table should have more clearly defined transitions than letters of the alphabet. I still don't know if "green" means middle tier or low tier or what for SSB. I just peg it as middle tier. I think there should be three main categories (high, middle, low) and subcategories for each. Subcategories for high tier would be 1) Meta Knight tier, 2) top tier, 3) high tier (the rest of high tier). Middle can be upper and lower, while bottom should be 1) low, 2) bottom, 3) Ganon. I think each major category should be placed on a different level (thus, "tier"). Names would be helpful, but if you have to choose between the two, pictures are better for quick reference.

Here's a really interesting idea: why not have "stats" for different characters? Each character receives a rating for each stat. The stats would be: 1) Spacing, 2) Approach, 3) Pressure, 4) Recovery, 5) Flexibility, and whatever else I'm forgetting. You get the idea.  Including projectiles might also be helpful, but the "Projectile" rating would have to include projectile defense, since certain characters don't need a heavy projectile game to function well (*cough* Meta Knight *cough*).  It wouldn't necessarily impact tier placement, but it would be helpful and informative to those of us who don't have time to comb every fighter's description.

Thanks for allowing suggestions, and I hope you come up with something cool!

My thoughts, Kyoshi1

P.S. As long as some people are giving suggestions, I might as well add one: Olimar should move to 5th after Brood's performance at Apex. At the very least, he needs to be considered top tier. I'm sorry, I don't care how good you are at a fighter; if the fighter is not top tier material, it is simply not possible for you to do what Brood did to Mew2King. It's as simple as that.

I think that's fairly reasonable. Oh, and keep Yoshi low tier; he's the guy I use in Low Tier tourneys, and I don't want to lose him! XP (Just kidding; he's probably due to move up to mid-tier anyway.  But I'll miss him if he does.)

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Peach should be in the top tier not MetaKnight, because MK has way to many drawbacks! Why do you guys place MK so high, he's a mid tier smasher! --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 21:19, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

WaterKirby1994, have you seen ANY real tournament match? Because Metaknight's only possible drawbacks are no projectiles and lightweight, but he has so many upsides those are ignored for his tier placement. Peach does not rank well in MLG Tourneys, while MetaKnight is often in top 5 for the rankings of a tournament, if the Metaknight is played well by the user. BloodyBoom (talk) 11:17, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Actually MetaKnight has several drawbacks, his recovery move completely changes his controls, thus leaving him vulnerable, & his moveset is difficult to control! --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 02:43, July 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually learn what a tier list is, before sprouting foolish foolishness that relates to your lies. Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 03:05, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think Link should be higher, because people aren't really playing as the MAIN CHARACTER, i.e. Link. Link should be 2nd Tier on SSB64, 1st Tier on SSBM, and 1st on SSBB (No one but me knows MK sucks). Link is flexible, fast, strong, GWP*, and has an FS that kills. (Unlike the rest)

No one knows how powerful Link is, so put him on high tiers.

There should be stat cards, cards I make for character stats.

Honest, there is a sixth tier list for Brawl! I'm sooooooooooooooo true, there is one, honest! Go to the other Smash wiki site (Smashwiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki) and see for yourself! You'll find a sixth tier list on that page! I'm really telling the truth, honest, HONEST! If it was fake all along, I'm sorry, Mr. Anon. I didn't know that was really not the official tier list, and if it is fake, I will erase the sixth tier list I made above in my suggestion. Sorry for any trouble I caused, so could you please forgive me, Mr. Anon? July 25, 2011, 20:53

EDIT: Hi there, again, I'm the one who made the sixth tier list up there and the sentence above. Anyway, this really isn't about the way it looks, I think it's the place that the characters should be in. My favorite character in Brawl is King Dedede, I really think he should be #1 on the tier list. He has dropped a space or two on each tier list and I really want him in the top spot. He has some powerful attacks, good recovery, the fastest falling speed in the game, and an awesome final smash. For Diddy Kong, he should really be in #2 (the sixth tier list for Brawl said he was #2). I don't know why he should be, but this wiki said his great things that got him in the high tiers are his bananas, his recovery and his peanut popgun. Kirby should be #3, Snake should be #4, Wario should be #5 and Mr. Game & Watch should be #6. Ganondorf should be in the high tiers as well. I know that he has very sluggish moves and very poor recovery, but what his powerful moves? Of course he was 10th in Melee's current tier list, why should he be last on Brawl's current tier list. As well as this, Jigglypuff isn't the worst character in Brawl, I know she suffered a large nerf, but think about it: here lightness, her sing attack and her famous Bridge of Edlin glitch. This should be reasons why she should be in the high tiers. Meta Knight should be in the low tiers because he doesn't have any strong attacks, and I don't think anyone should risk using his recovery. Donkey Kong should be back in the high tiers again like the first tier list of Brawl, and Pikachu should be #7 because he has an awesome down special: his Thunder blot. R.O.B. should be #8 as well because he's my fourth favorite character in Brawl. Of course, Bowser should be in a higher position because he has some powerful attacks. Think about the places, Mr. Anon. July 26, 10:21
 * Final smashes are banned, Ganondorf can be assaulted way too easily, and same with Bowser. Dedede's general sluggish attacks make it hard for him to put good shield pressure or avoid it. This Forum is also about what the Tier List looks like, so this post will not affect the placings.BloodyBoom (talk) 12:35, July 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, forget about his final smash, but King Dedede has his hammer and it's super-powerful. And he doesn't have sluggish attacks! That's why he should be the top character.

First, sing your comments with ~ ~ ~ ~, second, ANYONE, BUT SMASH BOARDS DECIDE THE CHARACTERS POSITIONS ON THE TIER LIST, if you beat a top tier with a bottom/middle, Congratulations!, but there were tournaments, were professional smashers fight with a character, the character´s position are chossen by the metagame of all characters and counters...and sorry for my bad english201.164.216.99 00:19, July 24, 2011 (UTC) (No acount)

Responding to a couple people above
Unfortunately, I am not in control of the SmashBoards tier list, so I cannot change that. And because SmashBoards' tier lists are the most famous, we have to include them.

However, according to NOT, SmashWiki is not "official", and doesn't have to take Smashboard's word by law. If you provide a well reasoned tier list of your own that has been reviewed by people experienced with the game, I don't see any harm in including it as well. Mr. Anon (talk) 19:24, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Can i provide a tier list? --WaterKirby1994 (talk) 05:50, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion 1
Note: I am suggesting an idea down here (responding to Mr. Anon). This is not the real tier list, just a tier list that I think it should be for the seventh tier list. The page were you put in suggestions now requires you to log in, I won't do that, so I had no choice but to put it down here (Note that this is for Brawl). Don't erase this, I won't block you, but it's best to leave this alone (I'll erase this if many people don't agree on this).

EDIT: To get more positive reviews, I've switched Captain Falcon and Snake's positions. Captain Falcon is now higher and I've swapped Link and Jigglypuff's places. And could I have lots of reviews (anyone including Mr. Anon) soon, please. You can comment on this if you want, and could I have lots of them very soon, please?

Peach should be champion!

EDIT: I have made some changes to the tier list below. More will come soon!

Plus, when is this format going to be done? (and could you please answer soon?!)
 * Pretty good, though Meta Knight should be higher and Ganondorf lower. Regarding the format, we are having some trouble working on it, since one of the main guys on this project, Piratehunter, ended up vandalizing the wiki. Mr. Anon (talk) 20:02, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed what you're saying, Mr. Anon. Well, I improved my tier list. Meta Knight is higher (taking Falco's place) and Ganondorf is lower (taking Charizard's place). I realized that Charizard should be in the high tiers becuase his side special move is very powerful. Fox is in Marth's place because I now finally realize that he's very good in Boss Battles (I beated Boss Battles in 3 minutes with him, breaking the previous world record). Marth doesn't have much powerful attacks (except his final smash, but that probably doesn't count), so I put him the low tiers. I have also put Sonic and Yoshi in Lucario and Squirtle's place.

And could you respond soon? And why did Piratehunter vandalize the wiki? Plus, could you explain why the characters are in their certain place (ex: why is King Dedede in 10th place?) August 11, 16:36

Honestly, Charizard is well good enough to be in the top "B" tier since he has AMAZING power and speed along with great grabs, airgame and damage racking ablilities.Rock-smash does around 40% if all debris and the headbutt hit, and Flamethrower not only racks up fast damage but protects him from attacks like a full powered charge shot from samus.Put him where King Dedede is now.....:)
 * Well, Charizard does have AMAZING power but I put King Dedede in the top spot because he's my favorite character in Brawl. But how about this: I put Charizard in 2nd place and out Zelda in 14th. That should make you more impressed.


 * Great tier list! Just wait for me to get the formatting done (which should only take a week or two) and it will be up there. Mr. Anon (talk) 04:22, August 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Mr. Anon!

I believe that instead of everybody fighting for their favorite characters, there should be a list of categories and every character gets a rating in each of them. Some are good categories, like jump, and some are bad, like the likely hood of being knocked out. Put it all in a table, and have people decide for themselves. Ekaj Renrut  Wanna be friends?   Then Message Me!  15:31, August 12, 2011 (UTC)