Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25686239-20141204164328/@comment-5298614-20141208053707

Smash Pro64 wrote: IfraidGryphLW160BSF wrote: NerfAkira wrote: if you wanna know whos top tier, look for characters that are really fast and have projectiles, they literally occupy the top 6 slots of just about everyone's list.

well hes who i think is the best:

Greninja is among the worst of the top tier, hes fast, but his shadow is really what makes him amazing along with his up smash.

Yoshi is just silly, hes got huge damage output, huge smash power, an amazing aerial game, super armor on his double jump for no reason, and a really good projectile.

Rosalina is also really good, shes top tier even if luma didn't exist, but because it does she is just broken, the only saving grace is that you can kinda grief the luma to death. but the issue that is going to get Rosalina banned (undoubtably) is the fact she's encouraged to run currently, and not the robin style of "oh ya, i can still fight just im missing a spell, no big deal, also im slow and can get overwelmed easily so running is a bad option" Rosalina is amazing solo, but what ruins her is the fact luma is set to a respawn timer rather than something like a KO bar for little mac. she has no reason to fight you head on until the luma is back up, running is literally encouraged for rosalinas as the benefits are sooooo far vast when luma is present. i can't see her actually being allowed in tournaments when we start seeing this.

Shiek (and a few others) are broken mainly due to their aerial game. shiek is literally the reason Little mac will never ever not even for a second be picked up in comp. she has a super easy combo that pretty much allows her to take your character across the stage and quite a bit off the platform (to the point little mac has 0% chance to recover) and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. Shiek's other quality is shes really really fast and has really solid smashes.

if you have noticed, all 4 of these characters have projectiles of some form and are really fast (except rosalina but she has a projectile that comes out of a projectile that can also attack and smash people, and no thats not a joke, luma is a projectile, and he shoots projectiles, like seriously wtf)

I can't see custom moves working though as a result of the current top tier list. all of them have undesirable Bs that have really good customs that remedy the issue and boosts them further into broken tier.

now as for the worst character in the game, it would have to be palutena. there is nothing good about any of her smashes, her air game is an utter joke (save her spike) and her projectile sucks. beyond this, her shield is a worse version of falco's reflector kick, her counter is weak (at least thats how it feels) and her recovery is about as good as shiek but unlike shiek and zelda, she cant hurt people during her teleport.

the major thing to remember in smash currently, is there is no reason to play a heavy character like ike, who lacks a projectile, has hard to hit smashes, and huge recovery times, with no benefit in smash 4. compare him to yoshi, yoshi has a way better aerial game that is ungodly to beat, his forward smash is faster than ike's forward tilt and smashes far better, and has a range projectile to force and approach. in short heres what we see for heavy characters that is supposed to balance them but does an awful job.

Slow character: Smashes killer earlier. Do more damage on some attacks.

those are really the only benefits specific to heavy characters, now lets look at the negatives:

Can't walljump (yes bring back a mechanic that favored the already top tier fast characters) horrible recovery off stage Horrible recovery times for wiffing most of their attacks Horrible aerial game where they are given a single chance to hit you, where as people like shiek just keep coming and coming and coming and nothing you do will stop them. horrible time getting damage going, sure you hit hard, but your attacks are also slow, and there is no chip damage in smash, a block on that attack means your going to get hurt. bad jump height. a vast majority of them have really bad projectiles or just lack it entirely.

Speaking of wall jumping, why can't DK wall jump like in Jungle Beat? "The world may never know"

Also, there IS a reason to play heavy characters in smash 4, just, not actual smash itself. It's extremely hard for me to get a good score in home run contest with characters like Shiek, but easy with powerful characters like Ganondorf. I also used Ike for 100 man smash to unlock Wario. Do you expect me to beat 100 enemies with Jigglypuff? Or some other character that is weak in terms of strength? Then again, I'm not really the competitive type. Some thing are hard for me to preform (Why I main Luigi in Melee at the moment, may change to someone else, or not.) so I just play casually sometimes, wait, what am I saying? Anyways, the only way for me to win against my Amiibo is items. It's just to good for me, or I'm not good enough for it, wait that's the same thing.

It still didn't learn that shielding against hammer is bad. It also can't beat a team of 7 lvl 1s, even though I did it twice.