User talk:SSBC

Tier lists
I noticed from your post on BlueNinjakoopa's talk page that you don't seem to believe in tiers. So please, direct any and all comments, questions, arguments about tier lists to this page. Semicolon (talk) 07:34, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Contributions...
Do you have any plans to contribute actual content to this wiki? Right now, all you have done is basically stirred up delicate issues without listening to the other people's arguments (which is the polite way of saying trolled) and edited one article. And that edit at best constitutes violating NPOV and could easily be seen as inserting false information. I don't like to be the guy saying that you have to edit in a particular way, but if you want us to be tolerant of your arguing the tier list, I would suggest making some actual content edits. Right now, you are contributing nothing positive and only stirring up the pot. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 03:42, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bump. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:06, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Bump. What a smoking hot word. Unfortunately, it served little purpose in your context. SSBC (talk) 03:34, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

SIGN
Please take a look at it. It's obvious that simply telling you to sign your comments with four tildes isn't enough; maybe the whole policy page should convince you more.  BNK [ E 00:26, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Clarinet Hawk won't allow my signature. And please don't sound indignant, it's borderline hilarious.
 * If your sig isn't allowed, you must change it; no excuses. For example, make it, then on each wiki you edit, fill in the User:SSBC/sig page with what you want the sig to be on that wiki. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]]  eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  20:23, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, but now I'll have to type up an article that will probably be removed in a heartbeat, eh? Heat-Seeking Missile (talk) 20:04, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, since you clearly seem to know how to sign, refuse to do it yourself and make yourself generally a pain in the ass for everyone else, start signing your comments or I'll have to block you. Thanks.  Shadowcrest  20:42, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, please, no, not a block. Heat-Seeking Missile (talk) 20:04, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I came to warn you about the very same thing. Shadowcrest did it more concisely, accurately, and politely than I would have, but I issued the same warning to Zeldasmash for less and you haven't earned yourself any slack by contributing anything valuable to this wiki. Please, just add for tildes after your posts. That's all you have to do. It's the top left button on your keyboard. Just hold shift, and punch it 4 times. Semicolon (talk) 02:35, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

What, as if I didn't how to do ~ four times? And I don't remember you telling me to start adding tildes. You seem to have quite a bit of a higher manner than Shadowcrest, I advise against saying you're worse at this stuff than him. I have hardly anything to promote to this Wiki, as all I want is to promote more respect towards Ganondorf or make new possible Ganondorf mains, which will only result in me getting oppressed by the entire site. And I don't see why a signature is so important, but I'm tired of fighting it, so here we go, a signature. Heat-Seeking Missile (talk) 20:04, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, as if you didn't know how to do ~ four times, because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't just trying to piss on our rules and ignore the kind warnings from our actual contributors. I didn't think I needed to tell you to add four tildes because that's signing your comments, i.e we have a very simple equivalence here. Adding 4 tildes=signing your comments, ergo, when I tell you to sign your comments, you add four tildes. Nice how that works out, eh? And as has been said concisely by Toomai, if you're just here to campaign for a crappy character, take it elsewhere because you're in the wrong place. And remember, when you bitch about Smashwiki to your friends, we didn't ban you because you play Ganondorf. We banned you because you didn't play by the rules. It's not oppression, it's justice, per our policies. We gave you ample warning, and you gave us nothing in return, now you get a week to rethink your strategy. Semicolon (talk) 22:46, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * If that's what you want (connect with Ganondorf mains), go to SmashBoards. They have entire sub-forums for each character, and no one there will give a crap who you pick to be your main. No one here gives a crap either, but at least on SmashBoards's character sub-forums you don't have to pay attention to the opinions of everyone. (And your sig is still illegal - rules are rules, you've read them, and some admins would agree you deserve a minor block just for being snarky.) Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  20:22, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Watch- I'll find out that my next signature is unpermitted as well. Even if you are one of the heads of the site, I don't see why I have to treat myself as if I'm your inferior, helplessly obedient little dog. I saw someone getting flamed and trolled plentifully for saying that a Ganondorf can beat a Meta Knight on this site. I've seen stuff like that everywhere, actually. It's happening to me right now on GameFAQs. Why should I think the Smashboards will have people who respect the opinions of Ganondorf mains? And thank you for that minor little block, you're going kind of far about this, aren't you? SSBC 20:43, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Protip: There is a little "more" button in the top right corner of every page, as long as you're signed in. Click it, find "preferences".  You should be able to find your current signature.  Put in a link to your user page, and then one to your talk page.  You can also put in links to your contributions and edit count, if you wish.  Really, this is simple Wikia stuff, man.  Also, this is an encyclopedia of Smash, so we are trying to be as objective as possible about Ganondorf and every other character.  The truth is, professional play-wise, Ganondorf DOES suck.  He is slow.  Denying that is lying.  He is EXTREMELY slow.  Against fast characters like Meta Knight, he stands no chance.  He is very big.  He has almost no ways to combat projectiles other than dodging and shielding.  He is heavy, and thus chaingrabbed very easily.  He has a predictable recovery, and is generally bad at recovering in general.  I'm sure there are plenty of people at Smashboards who are trying to find ways to get past these glaring flaws and make an awesome character.  You wanna help?  Go to Smashboards.  This is an encyclopedia of facts, and of everything known about Smash and the tourney scene so far.  Understood? L33t   Silvie  I see wat u did thar... |undefined 23:42, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I edited my signature. I mean, for some people, I guess it wouldn't seem plain as day that I changed it from the "Rule world" to "Heat-Seeking Missile" to "SSBC" to some people, but you seem to know your stuff. If you're trying to be as objective as possible, then it'd be logical to put Meta Knight in a very objective position on the tier, not mindlessly slapped on #1. Ganondorf "sucking" is based on the player making bad use of him. Him being good is based on good use. It's simple to understand. His slowness gets less noticeable as you use him longer. Meta Knight may not be able to run circles around Ganondorf; Meta Knight is floaty and weak, whereas Ganondorf is a general tank. There are several other big targets in this game; what, and they don't matter when it comes to avoiding projectiles? He's not even the biggest target, anyway. Snake is heavy, and can be thus chaingrabbed just as easily, but I guess that wouldn't matter either, right? There are actually many recovery opportunities; I look up videos of him and find some very clever and unpredictable recoveries. I went on Smash Boards, posted a topic, and it's just been ignored. Also, "glaring flaws" is an opinion, and not real fact.
 * Are. you. serious. There's no accurate way to express this...capitalization won't do it, that's too extreme. Underlining is always strange and ambiguous, and bold is cliche. Italics I've already used too much. So I'm just going to say it. Sign your comments. Sign your comments. Sign your comments. Got it? Semicolon (talk) 01:32, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Um, well, cool story bro, but unless you're blind, in plain sight, you'll see a signature, so... yeah. SSBC (talk) 22:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which of course explains perfectly the fact that I had to add an unsigned template to your above post. Plus, I really don't like your attitude. Semicolon (talk) 22:55, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Pah... and the ones I've been putting here for a while now don't matter? And you don't like my attitude, get over it. Treat me with disrespect, I treat you with disrespect. SSBC (talk) 22:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes they don't matter. It's an all or nothing thing. You either sign every post (or fix it if you forgot, it happens) or you don't sign every post. Not signing every post puts you in my doghouse, signing every post does not. You're on a much shorter leash because you have a history of disrespecting our rules, particularly on this issue.


 * As for the other issue, let me make something very clear. You walked onto this site and declared that your opinions had to be made canon, told people who disagreed with you that they must be wrong, pissed on our rules, and then called me out of line for attempting to deal with this. Excuse me for having a little impatience with somebody who strolls onto this website, tells us that we and everybody else in the Smash community are wrong about his favorite character, proclaims that he's not good enough to prove that that character is as good as he says he is, and then insults me personally. You don't belong on this website. If you make any contribution henceforth that I or anybody else, which includes IPs, deem to be even marginally out of line, I am banning you. Manner up or leave forever. That's the ultimatum. Get over it. Semicolon (talk) 00:27, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sir, I believe you're kind of going mad with power. I doubt Toomai would do that, despite me messing with him so much. And I just wanted to say that the true values to a character are not based on tourney success, but what a player makes of the character. My edit to that page got removed. It's tough to explain, but I felt a lot of anguish when that happened. Oh, and P.S., a good thing to try is to get around my "poor manners" and talk to me trying to have a mutual agreement with my general antagonism to this site. It's pleasant, and I've been thinking it'd be pretty good at proving tolerance. SSBC (talk) 02:44, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, mad with power, on this god-forsaken wasteland of the internets, ruling over 5 or 6 honest contributors while having a bureaucrat breathe down my neck every time I ban an IP. TBPH, I concede that I have no power, and I'm apt to be overruled whenever I step out of line by my superiors, but seeing as neither have found this particular discussion to be worth intercession, it remains thus. Toomai is the new guy, he has even less power than I do. He also has the priviledge of not being the one dealing with your misbehaviors. Here on SmashWiki we have an unofficial policy: finish what you started. We only interfere with the business and fights picked by the other sysops if things are going down the toilet fast, and 90% of the time it's to provide backup.


 * Listen, I'm sorry you felt anguish over your edit being reverted. Frankly, this is the internet, and your emotions ought not to be invested in it. You obviously care a good deal about Ganondorf's perception, and that's great. It's better than not caring about anything at all. But on that same note, I would advise you really to look hard at how you think about characters in this game. The reason tier placements are based on tournament results is because that's the best evidence we have. The idea is to control the effect that extraneous factors have on character performance to judge what character is best natively. You do this by having items off, no stage shennangians, and controlling for player skill. You control for player skill by having the very best play, and the very best come together to play each other at tournaments. It is exactly as you said; the players who make the most of a character are the best players, who play at tournaments. That's why we think the way we do about characters. Combo videos and techniques and stuff are cool and add someone to a character's perception, but if those cannot be translated into results, what do they even matter? EDIT: Damn my browser. Semicolon (talk) 15:25, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, look, I'm sorry I'm not gaga over tiers or "good" characters or whatever you wish I think, but that's just me. You can think Ganondorf sucks, fine by me. Proves you need to put some work into your Ganondorf skills, though. SSBC (talk) 03:40, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, this is where I start really having a problem with the argumentation that you are using. If you want to actually debate Ganon's flaws/advantages, fine.  But when you begin assuming that anyone who disagrees with you hasn't practiced you've stepped out of line.  How much smash have you played?  Give me an estimate.  Semi and I played for two to three hours a day for about a year after it came out. We still play regularly, just not that much.  And we tried every character and reserved time most weeks for a few hours of practice with random characters.  In fact, now we only play random just to make sure that we keep fresh enough with most characters.  And, yes, we have decreased from fringe tournament competitors to retired semi-pro, but that's beside the point, mostly because all evidence points to that still being more involved with the tourney scene than you.  The point is that your assumption that because we don't agree with you we haven't practiced is unfounded and is basically what is called trolling.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 04:40, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't. Not in the least. Let's say I want to race you. It's on a flat stretch of road, essentially a drag race. Just straight forward. And you're allowed to choose any vehicle you like so long as it has four wheels. You pick an SUV. I pick a Mini Cooper. We set off. Who's going to win? You apparently can't drive. I've been driving for about 5 years. I am a better driver than you are. Yet you'll still beat me, because my Mini Cooper still doesn't have anywhere near the firepower of your SUV. By the time you're able to drive, I'll have 8 more years of experience than you, yet I'd still lose that race. Same in Smash Bros. I could have 8 more years of experience than you, but Ganon is just so much worse than Meta Knight that you'd still beat me given a year or two of experience. Semicolon (talk) 04:21, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Me trolling is a ridiculous accusation. I'm merely expressing what I believe. I'm not in the big-time no-life all-day-playing-Brawl tourney-happy position that you all claim to be in. True. However, I can say I've played about over 100 hours since Brawl has come out. Don't know if that's impressive, but it's something. And I'm saying that Ganondorf takes time to make truly invincible, time most people fail to invest and instead just feed the majority what they've heard. I'm a good Ganondorf, but I won't stand up to the tourneys quite yet. I'll put more work into that. And How is Ganondorf any worse than Meta Knight? Ganondorf is a slow powerhouse, Meta Knight is a weak speedster. It about balances out. SSBC (talk) 18:55, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're pretty much done with this conversation. You're refusing to listen to anything anybody else is saying, but I'm going to give this one last shot. Slow powerhouse is not equal to weak speedster. That's very very basic reasoning. That assumes that the value to each aspect of a character is equally weighted, but it's not. Most pros will tell you that start up lag is a very important aspect of a character, that is, how long after you press a button it takes for the hitboxes to come out. This is so critical because a character with very low start up lag allows no time for an opposing player to react, whereas the opposite is true of very high start up lag. This is precisely why Warlock Punch is pretty much useless as a move except in some edge guarding situations. It is so easily predictable that anybody can get out of its way. This is also why Meta Knight's dsmash is a very good move. It comes out almost instantaneously. Power is useless if it can't be used. That's the whole point here. Ganon's power is useless because it's so easy to avoid (relatively) whereas Meta Knight can pretty much go anywhere he wants and do anything he wants and you don't have much of a say in stopping him. The other aspect that is so critical to how good a character is is priority, which I'm going to assume you've never heard of. What priority is is if two moves would hit at the same time, which character takes damage. A character with very low priority generally sucks, ala Captain Falcon, and a character with very high priority and not even that much more ala Peach in melee is generally good. The point is that there is a hierarchy to the importance of certain characteristics to making a character good, and while weight and power are nice, they're not nearly as important as the others. If a character had a very powerful move that came out very fast, that move would be very very good, but a move that is very powerful that comes out very slow is useless, but a move that comes out very fast but isn't very powerful is very useful, because it usually can't be reacted to. You're turning things on their head in terms of importance, and I think that's the source of your problem.

Oh, and making a sockpuppet really doesn't help your case. Semicolon (talk) 19:27, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Your block
I've decided to simplify matters and block you for trolling and/or disruption. You can't really argue this, as you've clearly demonstrated that you understand policies, you just choose to ignore them. I don't like your tone, I don't like your attitude, and I don't like your contributions. We've been very clear as to what is tolerated and what isn't on this wiki. If your only goal is to "promote more respect towards Ganondorf or make new possible Ganondorf mains," you're not actually contributing to an encyclopedia as we report on what is, not what you think should be. You want to promote Ganon mains, go win some tourneys with him. Win a few big time tourneys and watch how much more respect you get here and on SmashBoards/AiB/GameFAQs. But right now, all you are is a disruptive troll. So you get to take a week off, think about what you've done, and then try harder next week. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 22:27, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your way of "keeping order" or whatever you think it is around here just doesn't make me feel like being your mindless little drone. I like to do these things my way. And saying winning a major tourney is the only way is quite an exaggeration; I could find a way to promote respect without tournament success. SSBC (talk) 01:04, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're perfectly right when it comes to promoting respect without tournament success - but let's face it, tournaments and the tier list are results-driven. I could go around saying that the Edmonton Oilers are a good team because yadda yadda yadda, and maybe there's some truth to it, but that doesn't change the fact they're at the bottom of the league. The fans will always stick around because they know things will eventually get better, and the team itself is trying like the dickens to improve, but as it stands currently, they suck - and when it comes down to it, that's what matters. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  01:20, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

My theory is that many people just don't know how to use Ganondorf correctly, or just use him once. He may seem terrible at first- that was a true story for me- but over time, his flaws seemed like total afterthoughts. And now, Meta Knight seems like a total afterthought to me. And if I'm going to do something for this site, please let me know of a flaw I could fix. SSBC (talk) 01:25, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * No dude, you can't promote him without tournament success, for the very basic fact that losing games isn't nearly as popular or decisive as winning games. But please, I'd be glad to discuss your ideas about how to minimize his flaws, just not on your talk page. You are invited to make a forum, properly written with capitalization and accurate spelling, and with it signed, and we can talk about it there, but talk page is not the place. Semicolon (talk) 01:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

You get nothing but hate for appreciating Ganondorf. I could be an excellent Ganondorf with enough practice, which would net me respect, but that's one of the few ways to do it. I'm not entering tournaments, not only am I possibly not even skilled enough to make it past the first few matches, but also, I would have to drive long and far to enter, if I even know where tourneys are hosted. You seem to be trying my IQ. Well, maybe me and Toomai are somewhere along an equal string of brains (which is quite good), but you're left in the dust. SSBC (talk) 22:36, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't want you to take this next comment the wrong way; I don't feel like I have anything to prove to you, but, that having been said, your slight about my intelligence is far off. I know this for 2 reasons: (1) you think Ganondorf is better than Meta Knight (2) I promise you I'm more intelligent than you are. I'm guessing you are, at most, still in high school. I am preparing to attend a top 10 graduate school. Trust me. You're much dumber than I am. This isn't a personal attack either. Given the previous 2 premises, it's a fact. But don't make this about intelligence. It's about your behavior, your ignorance, and your arrogance. Semicolon (talk) 01:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "I could be an excellent Ganondorf with enough practice." Then go fucking practice.  Seriously, this is the one excuse (not just here, but in life) that I am absolutely sick of.  The simple fact of the matter is that you haven't practiced and therefore aren't excellent.  Let's look at it this way.  I'm a professional musician.  Not some high-school dropout with a guitar, but a conservatory trained clarinetist and composer.  I spend between five and ten hours most days (no exaggeration) studying music.  Most people don't, and that's why I'm better than most people.  My roommate spends 5 plus hours a day studying law, and he's a much better legal student than I am.  Now, we're both smart enough that we could have switched roles and probably be around each other's level.  But we aren't.  You know why, because we haven't spent the time in those areas.  Just because we could be as good as each other, we aren't and I don't get to say that people should take my opinion on jurisprudence just because I could have been a good legal scholar if I spent the hours studying it.  You don't get to say that you're a top level Ganon but just haven't spent the time.  However, if you even do decide to put in the time and make your opinion anything more that the ravings of a emotionally orphaned troll, I would also recomend practicing posting on SmashWiki, because you kinda suck at that as well.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:38, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude.  BNK [ E 00:47, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:55, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I...good enough.  BNK [ E 01:13, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't be serious. I'm getting sick of your ignorance. Semicolon (talk) 22:56, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry for leaving you disgusted, but maybe if you treated me with respect, I wouldn't talk like this to you! It's a simple thing, really... SSBC (talk) 22:59, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you drive?  BNK [ E 23:55, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

...All this over a simple edit, and me filing a complaint when a mod said it was a stale contribution to the site. You know, it's truly things like this that should just wash away. I've been trying to treat you all with respect. Why? Because I get over it. I'm starting to understand how my Ganondorf page edit left a lot to be desired. I still know it didn't feel good to have my contribution removed like that, but I've gotten over it. Oh, and BlueNinjaKoopa, what exactly do you mean by "What do you drive?" SSBC (talk) 02:53, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Brand, car name, etc. For example, Ford Edge. Like tell me the name and brand of the vehicle you drive. I'm curious.  BNK [ E 03:07, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, well I'm not old enough to drive yet. 13, you see. SSBC (talk) 03:38, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ganon
First of all, I have no actual hatred for the guy. I have twilight princess, and I get excited whenever he pops up in a cutscene, but he sucks in brawl. OK, this statement might be biased, but MK is way better (he is my fav, though). He was OK in melee, but he sucks in brawl. How about this: If you got MewtwoKing, the greatest SSB player in the universe, and you had him play as ganon, while I play as meta knight, and I will win. Ganon has no combos, while MK has like, a hundred infinite combos. Ganon has no good KO moves, but MK does. Ganon's recovery is bad and predictable, but Meta has four jumps, the ability to glide, and has all four special moves as recoveries. Now, Ganon may suck in tournies, but it may be different if not in tourny mode. For example, he's really good in home run contest. And if his final smash was allowed, he might have a different position on the tier list. But in professional tournies, with SBR rules, and reasonable players, I doubt there will ever be a Ganon winner. 98.111.95.78 00:58, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You see, telling him things like this only fuels him to make his repartee. If he argues that Ganon doesn't suck, don't try to force the reality into him, just tell him the facts: Ganon don't do well in them there tournaments.  BNK [ E 01:15, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * General replay to the Ganon fiasco:There are some good Ganons who do perform well in tournies and have skill, Take Fonzs for example, who beat Alphazealot in friendlies. However, he is very skilled, and is very situational. In general, Ganons do not perform like this, and thus is never recognized. Smoreking (T)  (c)  01:25, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

And... how many of you that say Ganondorf sucks actually practice hard with him? SSBC (talk) 02:55, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, by your above comments, you haven't practiced either... Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 03:25, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You need to practice hard with Ganon to do well with him. You don't even need to practice with meta.98.111.95.78 20:11, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Clarinet, I haven't practiced hard enough to be a tourney-happy pro. And other sir, yes you do. He's really slippery and floaty, and quick as well. You need to know how to deal with his insane speed and figure out how on Earth to kill something as him. With Ganondorf, his controls are tightened, he has manageable aerial qualities, and he's exceedingly strong. What needs dedication is to find ways to make up for his slowness. SSBC (talk) 03:45, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You think being quick is a reason for more training? How about this, I'll make this easier for you. Name one good KO move Ganon has. Just one. Now, let's look at snake, the second best guy in the game. Snake is heavier, so he's harder to KO, but he's faster, has faster yet stronger attacks, has a better recovery, and has projectiles. What does Ganon have? {this space is intentionally left blank}. Still think Ganon's better? 98.111.95.78 16:43, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ganondorf's KO moves are stronger than Pikachu's...  BNK [ E 18:48, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, in all fairness, Ganon does have a ton of KO moves. The hard part is getting them off and landing them.  And, no, that doesn't just come with practice, because any good player will know the exact range and timing of these attacks and keep you from landing them.  That's the big reason that speed is an issue.  It's not running/air speed that is the issue (although that is important), but attack speed that really keeps Ganon down.  Add in the fact that his range is rather unimpressive for the slowness of his attacks, and well...  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 17:26, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Very nice argumentation, Clarinet. I guess that I'm at the end of my line. The best strategy for Ganondorf I guess is to try and be as unpredictable as possible, and it works, trust me. Zhoaten is the best example. That guy is just always one step ahead. And you need to get used to the speed and aerial abilities of Meta Knight. You could overestimate him and completely miss the opponent time and again. With all that speed, you need to time everything right in order to be able to properly chain together a quick death-probable combo. As for good KO moves with Ganondorf: Warlock Punch. Ganoncide. Wizard's Foot. UAir. FAir. BAir. DAir. Up Tilt. Forward Tilt. Down Tilt (at higher %s). Forward Smash. Down Smash. Up Smash. Even the Jab, sometimes. Ganondorf is stronger, and can actually hurt people with his recovery, when compared to Snake. I don't know about the heavier part. But also, Ganondorf is much better in the air, whereas Snake's air ability is just absolutely lackluster. SSBC (talk) 19:09, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are NOT good KO moves. Do you have any idea how slow they are. Now, if you look at Meta Knight, he has his down smash, dair, Tornado, Shuttle Loop, and cape. You do not need to "get used to his speed" as much as you have to get used to Ganon's slowness. Ganon is so slow that Meta's Walk is probably faster than Ganon's run. Meta's tornado does huge damage, decent knockback, and is a good recovery. Speed does not hinder you're ability to chain together a combo, in fact, quite the opposite. On the other hand, Ganon is just a clone of Captain Falcon. But unlike Falcon, who has speed, Ganon is just slow. Actually try playing as Meta before wailing "Tires Don Exits". 98.111.95.78 21:06, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * your*
 * Also: speed=/=power, stop trolling (because you're actually not contributing to the argument, you're just badgering SSBC), the Mach Tornado is good for racking up damage and has terrible knockback, and Ganon is not a "clone" of Captain Falcon in Super Smash Brothers Brawl.  BNK [ E 22:16, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you siding with him? 98.111.95.78 22:21, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

who should be in the next smash bros?
i think paper mario should be in the next smash bros P.S. my name is mariomario678910 please don't ban me because i was already banned on the Pac-man wiki--hi 22:23, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, why exactly did you put this here? Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  23:07, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a quick unwritten sysop rule Toomai: shoot first, ask questions later. Semicolon (talk) 23:54, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I'm a celebrity. Somebody is wanting to turn my talk page into a forum. SSBC (talk) 03:46, March 28, 2010 (UTC)