Talk:Professionals

What to do with this page?
I really don't think this page is a good idea. First, what constitutes a "professional"? Whomever any editor thinks should be listed here? And once we've started listing "professionals", where do we stop? Do we list everyone who's ever played that character with any semblence of skill? Why is Pictish Freak listed here when said he quit over a year ago? Same with Masashi, who only plays for fun anymore (which sorta goes against the standard definition of "professional").

Does winning a local tournament make you a professional? What about placing 32nd at a large event like 0C2? Or do you just have to be well-known? Doesn't it seem like we're using different criteria for listing Isai and Ken as we are for listing G-reg, KevMoney, and Kawn? (not to pick on anyone personally).

My point is this: a wiki is supposed to be a collection of factual information. This page is meaningless and will draw unending flames without a definite idea of what it should consist of. --nealdt 20:17, August 1, 2006 (GMT)

My rebuttal
Not to make further excuses or anything, but for the list, a lot of the reasoning about my choices really came as a result of my experiences of trying to find pro vids. Way back when when I was a huge nublet, I used to think things like DSF was a Capt falcon player, and the only known Falco player in the US was Caveman because there wasn't any real reference for me to look up.

A few months back, the gamefaqs had a good discussion about what we need in the new CoSK; and we all put forth our ideas. One of the ones circulating in my mind was a pro list so then players can look up and watch vids of the pros who play their character. Now, I'm not saying my list is completely perfect, but I will say that a lot of my choices on the list IS based on availability of vids (which is also why FastLikeTree and Azen's Luigi/Link slipped my mind <--List was asked for before SA VII). I also wanted the list to include players from all over the globe and from different regions because, even though everyone plays the same characters/stages/etc., there is a definite difference in people's style of play as you go more and more overseas.

One of my friends use to play Unreal Tournament professionally, and he told me that American players generally have problems against Europeans because their styles and strats are different. And this game is online, and every player in the world plays the same maps and uses the same weapons yet there's apparently a difference between Americans and Europeans. Likewise, if we compare guys like Chillin or Masashi, you can see an obvious difference of playstyles. I think if we include playstyles that are this drastically different, it'll be better for players who want to learn since they'll be able to observe new strategies and decide which moves and which strats are more effective. (yeah, I copied and pasted from gamefaqs, but whatev).

But Nealdt, what you said I think is true. There should be a clearcut definition of what a pro is. But I think that we should also keep in mind that for certain characters (like Zelda), there really isn't a great amount of legitamate pro players who choose to use her and have vids up of her. That's why I included guys like Kawn who player her pretty well and can let budding players see how she can be played.

As for Pictishfreak, I also wanted to add players who are more or less synonymous with the character they play. If you name a character like Marth and ask someone to name a pro associated with Marth, they'll most likely name Ken because he's tied so close with that character. While they may not be the best players in the world, I think it's equally important for us to add these figures in as well.

And as for Masashi, apparently retirement in video games just means you don't practice but still go to Smashfests and Tourneys. In fact, Masashi just came first in a recent tourney.--Mr Ng 21:07, August 1, 2006 (GMT)


 * I would actually feel better if we used a different term for this page. "Professional" obviously has lots of baggage associated with it, and will undoubtedly lead to debates on whether player X is a professional. Perhaps this page should be called "Well-known Smashers", or something similar. The intent here is to help new community members learn who the big names are, correct? Not to cause hard feelings or debates over professionality? If so, then I'd say a name change is in order. --nealdt 23:43, August 1, 2006 (GMT)


 * I also would to prevent this wiki from becoming a place for people to inflate their egos. We're already seeing pages for everyone and their grandmother; this site would turn into a terrible waste of potential if the current trend of making nealdt and linking Professionals to it continues. --nealdt 23:46, August 1, 2006 (GMT)


 * That's cool man. As long as we both understand where we're both coming from, I think that it'll all work out.--Mr Ng 02:39, August 2, 2006 (GMT)

There is a new tier list, should this all follow the order it goes in now?Iggy K 07:18, August 7, 2006 (GMT)

Hoshikabi & HoshinoKirby
These aren't the same player???? The romanization of the japanese spelling of Kirby is kaabii.


 * headdesk* Yeah, you're right man.  Hoshikabi = HoshinoKirby.  Good call there :)  *is an idjot*

Pain in the @$$
There is a thing somebody can do to make it look more wikified, but it's a pain in the @$$. It is doing the following:

Somewherelandia
Person1, Person2, Person3

to

Somewherelandia

 * Person1
 * Person2
 * Person3

get what I mean? Then plz, fix it. I'm too lazy myself. Smiddle / talk 11:23, November 12, 2006 (GMT)

Obselete

 * I think that we definitely need a definition of a Pro Smasher. However either with or without one, this page remains obselete, and in fact, ugly and unappealing. We already have Category:Pros, and these two pages have few similarities. I think this page should be done away with, while the Back Room takes up the issue in the meantime. -- Bean 01:04, December 5, 2006 (GMT)

Clean up!

 * Every time I click onto this page, I keep seeing this ugly, terribly designed page. So I plan on cleaning it up, make something easier to look at and look up for reference. Although I do believe the topic above this one is very important, I still plan on making this thing pretty. Maybe we could just slap a label on this thing. The "neutrallity of this page may be questionable" or some such thing. I'd like to talk about it in the Back Room, but I really don't go on SWF that much, so I'm really not noticed. Case in point: I will make it a project to clean up this page and make it more practical. Oddeven2002 04:09, December 17, 2006 (GMT)


 * Did you note what I said? We do not need both Category:Pros and this Professionals page. I think that if this page is to be cleaned up, it should instead be deleted and merged with Category:Pros. -- Bean 09:39, December 17, 2006 (GMT)


 * So how do you recomend we merge pages? How can we best represent the pros in a category, easy to find by character they use, and by country like how an encyclopedia should? Or is even reference by country necissary? Oddeven2002 17:55, December 17, 2006 (GMT)


 * We could do subcategories for the character specific pros, like Category:Ice Climbers Pros. Then if enough people thought that region is important enough, we could also do things like Category:NorCal Pros or Europe Pros. These would be subcategories of Category:Pros, that way everything would be automatically updated with the addition of new pros.


 * I like the idea that the guy above said. It's sounds simple and clean.--Simna ibn Sind 21:51, December 17, 2006 (GMT)