User talk:Randall00/Archive 1

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Attention!

As an avid SmashWikidian, I dislike fragmented discussions. If you leave a comment for me, I will most likely respond to it in here, in this same page, on my talk page, as an effort to keep the entire conversation in one place. By the same token, if I leave a comment on your talk page, please feel free to respond to it there, on your talk page. Remember, we can use our watchlist to keep track of when responses are made. At the same time, feel free to send an alert to me on this page about a comment you have left elsewhere.

Thank you!

Thanks.
Thanks for helping me to improve the 1233's wiki article, looks very-very nice, thanks =)

--Dyna 22:25, January 31, 2007 (GMT)


 * You're very welcome. I'm trying to do a general cleanup of the various Smasher pages since they tend to be the most lacking in overall quality. :^)


 * -- Randall00 22:46, January 31, 2007 (GMT)

Hey thanks Randall =] We still need to do Stevo and Mike D:

--Janitor 8:45, April 30, 2007 (GMT)
 * In time, in time. And they should be listed under Steve and Mike, as per the CCSC smasher profiles they filled out. -- Randall00 Talk 19:23, April 30, 2007 (GMT)

By the way Randall, did you get my CCSC smasher profile? i believe i filled it out. =]

--Janitor 11:00, May 5, 2007 (GMT)

Sandbox
You have two user sandboxes, one at user:Randall00/Sandbox, and one at user:Randall00/sandbox. Just wanted to tell you. 19:30, February 23, 2007 (GMT)
 * Yeppers, more cleanup that requires administrative power, alas. -- Randall00 19:34, February 23, 2007 (GMT)

Wow.
How did you found out all that information on AngelCX? Is it simply because you checked out the TSA thread?

Anyway, it's pretty hot and amazing what you did there. Good stuff. --WarriorofZarona 15:56, April 5, 2007 (GMT)


 * Haha, thanks WoZ, I'm glad somebody notices the phantom poking around and studying that I do of other regional smash communities! I have a lot of admiration for The Smash Affiliates and the way you guys do things and I try and offer the same sort of philosophy at my own bi-weeklies. As to the stuff on AngelCX, I found most of the information just by viewing his posts. "Find all threads started by AngelCX" can take you pretty far when dealing with tournament directors and even the very roots of many reputable smashers can be dug up in the archived topics from the days of SWF's inception.


 * Nevertheless, the article isn't up to my own standards quite yet, as I was unable to easily track down his first name and age. :) -- Randall00 Talk 00:12, April 6, 2007 (GMT)

Template:ccsc
Hey it's Vic, for the Recurring Events in the CCSC thing you have on your page, you forgot to put CAST =(


 * Oo, good catch; fixed now, thank you! -- Randall00 Talk 18:32, April 18, 2007 (GMT)

Sig
Perhaps you wanted this?
 * Randall00 

The tags must be inside the caption, and there should be a cross in front of the numbers. 19:41, April 23, 2007 (GMT)

Circuit Stuff
Hey I don't really know how to use this, but if you'd like to talk about the Circuit stuff, feel free to PM me on Smashboards. I'd love to work with you on it. KishPrime 15:13, April 24, 2007 (GMT)


 * I'll definitely send you a message in due time. My Circuit-related work just hit a rather large hurdle, though, so it might be a little while. Thankfully, I don't think the smash community is going anywhere. -- Randall00 Talk 17:06, April 24, 2007 (GMT)

Picture
Excuse me,but i wanted to know why you have removed my picture on my Article.Is it not allowed?

Or is it forbidden to have a picture without showing yourself?

thanks Super Mari0 13:28, May 4, 2007 (GMT)

I know im not randal but I'll tell you the answer. Its a policy on Smash wiki: Smashwiki is not the place for smasher and crew banners and other advertising images.

ToXn 15:00, May 4, 2007 (GMT)


 * Yes sir, these articles are not personality profiles and regardless of how flashy the banner is, it is unencyclopedic to include it unless it happens to have a particular impact on the smash community and its history in some way. In the same respect, articles should be focused on the facts in the text portion as well without diverting too much into inside jokes and useless trivia. -- Randall00 Talk 23:09, May 4, 2007 (GMT)


 * Thers one page cybr has tons of useless triva, should i edit it? I ask because if I do something to that page regarded as "vandalism", I will be banned due to my stupidness earlier on. ToXn 16:49, May 5, 2007 (GMT)


 * Well you just have to be smart about it. Think about it as an encyclopedia articles comprised of facts. Yes, you should be bold and edit articles that you think need editing, just make sure that they follow the standard format. If you're dealing with encyclopedic information, it is never vandalism. A lot of these articles are pretty bare right now so if the information is useless, it doesn't necessarily need to be removed so long as it's true to some extent, but if the article already has a fair amount of content (Like chestterr01), it doesn't need to list all of his four-letter nicknames in point form. Ideally, we want all the articles to have a fair amount of real content, but as with cybr and all of The Slashers, really, I question whether they should exist in the first place. Realistically, a smasher who just plays at home and happens to have the internet shouldn't have a SmashWiki article just because he "hopes to attend a tournament one day." But since we can't stop the inappropriate ones from being created without a lot of headaches and administrative power, we have to at least make them as good as they can be. -- Randall00 Talk 16:16, May 6, 2007 (GMT)


 * Well I edited it anyways. And your right about the whole articles thing the guy does not even play smash anymore yet he insists on still having an article. I know about 6 other pages that should be deleted and if I actually thought about it I could think of 10 more. IS there anyway like wikipedia to recommend an article for deletion?


 * Well there's no policy in place at the moment. The problem is that it is an anti-communal sort of thing to say to go around telling people that they can't make their own articles. You can't really place a criteria on it to decide what's valid and what isn't. It might just make a lot of people angry, I don't know. Incidentally, we also now have articles like Knuckles that are turning into personality profiles....egh. -- Randall00 Talk 16:46, May 6, 2007 (GMT)

I've seen some articles with banners on them mainly http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Mutants and the members of the crew have pictures (not of them) on thier smasher pages too. Is this considered unencyclopedic? --Insane-Contrast 23:53, May 18, 2007 (GMT)


 * Yep, those are the ones that should be removed. -- Randall00 Talk 23:27, May 20, 2007 (GMT)

Crew-Logo
Why musnt we have a crew-logo and NAS can get one? --Tham 15:31, May 22, 2007 (GMT)


 * Nobody is allowed to have a crew logo, unless of course it is actually pertinent to the encyclopedic documentation of the smash community. But that's extremely unlikely. -- Randall00 Talk 21:24, May 22, 2007 (GMT)

DoctorMarioBoy
hold on...so what exactly are you supposed to put in the alias section of the smasherbeta? For Ring Master 1337, i put "DoctorMarioBoy" because that was his smashboards account. I'm guessing i'm mistaken? --Janitor 19:38, May 26, 2007 (GMT)


 * SmashWiki:Smasher Project <- Guessing is problematic that way, yeah...besides, I'm fairly sure it was "Dr.Marioboy" anyway. Either way, I've certainly never heard of anyone by that name and if he's a significant smasher in the CCSC, odds are I'd probably know about it. -- Randall00 Talk 19:17, May 27, 2007 (GMT)

Hmm
So I take it from your user page you don't care much for the Pokemon franchise, based on your user page; While I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it just sorta seems to me nowadays that a player in general would have to like ALL the franchises in Smash Bros. in order to fully appreciate Smash Bros. games thematically, and since I try to appreciate all the Nintendo franchises in these games, I know I'll definitely appreciate Brawl to its fullest. :) Erik the Appreciator 03:00, July 4, 2007 (EDT)


 * ...? Where do you get the notion that I don't care much for the Pokémon franchise? I've got a level 100 Oddish! :^) My only gripe with the franchise is how unimaginative and copious the sheer numbers of Pokémon creatures there are. They're running out of ideas. As a 255-hour veteran of the original Red Version, it just kinda sucks to see them go from creative designs like Scyther and Blastoise to the downright lazy "Poochyena" and "Purugly." -- Randall00 Talk 08:38, July 4, 2007 (EDT)


 * Oh! Sorry about that. The way your Mewtwo entry in your Suspected Roster Cuts was worded just gave that impression, amplified by the (obligatory of course) Pichu cut right below. Didn't occur to me you were merely an oldie-but-goodie junkie.
 * I aim to like every last one of the 493 species equally and thoroughly, and had succeeded in doing so with the third generation in recent years, though I do admit they did seem bland at first. I got to appreciating the 3rd generation Pokemon as much as the previous two by looking at all of their Pokemon card art at sites like Pokebeach.com, and also by looking at their living 3d models in GameCube games; It was almost surprising how much better fitting of the Pokemon motif they seemed afterwards. Poochyena's model and design actually makes it perhaps one of the best "common" designs around IMO. I had extremely lofty expectations for the fourth generation, and they were actually exceeded in the event; I find all of them absolutely excellent. But that's just me. :)
 * If anything's for certain, there'll be hell to pay if anyone bad-mouths my beloved Golden Sun series... when it comes out in Brawl. Mwahaha! Erik the Appreciator 13:31, July 4, 2007 (EDT)


 * Hehe, well you can like anything if you stare at it for long enough, but come on....Nosepass??? :^) -- Randall00 Talk 17:58, July 16, 2007 (EDT)
 * I like that Pokemon too because it dares to be different in the faces-er, noses of Pikachu, Togepi, the legendary birds/dogs, and other standard classics. And I judge a Pokemon's quality not just by appearance, but also by all its biological characteristics, which in Nosepass' case are quite interesting, and whatever evolutionary relations it might have make both it and its evolution more interesting. Meaning: I recently liked Nosepass a little better when it got its more interesting Probopass evolution, and currently I like Probopass better than Nosepass. (You can tell now why I gave myself this username, I'm sure. XD )Erik the Appreciator 02:20, July 17, 2007 (EDT)

Thanks!
Hey, thanks for randomly spiffying up my page; I feel rather flattered. Also, knowing how to classify my skill level ("Pro-Am") is useful as well. Zinth 23:51, July 6, 2007 (EDT)

GTM's Reply
I was just editing random stuff on the "small pages" list. You can delete them or whatever if you want, they're not my pages >_> GTM 18:14, July 30, 2007 (EDT)

Besides mine, im working on it >_> GTM 18:15, July 30, 2007 (EDT)

Umm...wtf?
You deleted my wiki. It was nice...why?

just because you made this doesn't mean people from smaller towns who are still damn good at the game can't have their own wiki.

I hope you die. I worked hard on that.

-chansen


 * If you, sir, had any idea what kind of contributions I have made to this wiki and how stunningly and embarrassingly selfish your comment is in that context, I would be more inclined to argue. However, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and offer a little tolerance for those who are ignorant of the system, rather than wish death on them when failing to consider why they might have done what they did.


 * Please see your relocated article at Chansen. -- Randall00 Talk 17:52, August 10, 2007 (EDT)

"SmashWiki is not a personal profile"
Hi there, just want to clear something up. According to this article, you said that contact information shouldn't be posted on smasher articles and they should be put in user pages instead. Is it alright, then, if when I see contact information on an article, I can remove it with no warning? Or is it just a suggestion to those who are writing their own articles and I shouldn't bother with it? --YodaMasterZ 22:34, August 10, 2007 (EDT)


 * In light of recent events, I would suggest removing it and copying and pasting it to their talk page with something like: "As per SmashWiki:Smasher Project, I have moved your contact information off of your smasher article. If you would like to restore this information, please put it on your user page. -- Randall00 Talk 22:58, August 10, 2007 (EDT)


 * Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. In the future, would you rather I not delete my own entries if somebody else answers it? --YodaMasterZ 23:07, August 10, 2007 (EDT)

You put 'LunInSpectra' twice in your future projects
Just lettting you know - Insane-Contrast 23:08, August 10, 2007 (EDT)
 * Haha, thanks, I'll try to resist writing it twice! -- Randall00 Talk 02:00, August 11, 2007 (EDT)

My Page
No, but I wish I was.--Aipom for Brawl--

Hello.
What did you mean by putting "iiiiiiiinnnnteresting" on my clan's page?

-ethanrodgers223


 * It's not an article. It looks like one thanks to the built-in wiki formatting and page header titles, but it's really just a personal homepage pretending to be an article.


 * More specific? Well the History page is inarguably pitiful and reads like an interview/customer testimonial where the interviewee doesn't say anything and passively mentions how the "clan" "seems" to continue growing. The article goes on to mention the current number of members, presently sitting at 34, and then lists a grand total of 15, 9 of which have an asterisk beside their name with a legend at the bottom that says: "'*'"User is validating." ....wtf?


 * Moving right along, we jump immediately into the Comic section without any clarification about the sharp inconsistency between number of members or what "validation" exactly means. This comic thing you've got going sounds really good and interesting from a community point of view, actually, and it belongs on a SmashWiki crew article. However, it doesn't explain what the comic is and the entire section only makes sense if you're a member of this crew; even then, I'm sure at least one of the 34 members would be able to see how transparent and immature the writing is. After all, the fact that the clan members are the "stars" is not a "feature," nor is the fact that Luni a "notable" member, regardless of how many times he uses the word "blarg" in the story. And what's this "note from the author"? "Expect ninjas and giant demon pokemon soon"?? This isn't a news website and this isn't the place to go for your comic updates; it's an encyclopedia.


 * But wait, there's more!!! It seems that on August 24th of 2007, Omneox of Smash created an alliance with Dawn Patrol.....first of all, what the hell does that even mean? The Dawn Patrol article even mentions how half the people in that crew had forgotten that this "alliance" offering was even on the table. Then apparently it was "made official"--how? when? why? I would be stunned if you could show me 34 people who even know about it, never mind 15 who could answer any of those questions.


 * Then there's this mysterious little "Success" section, as though all 34 of you have been huddling around the DOJO spamming the Refresh button and determining whether or not this hypothetical idea of a clan that doesn't exist will be a success or a failure. The only piece related to the "clan" is four team pairings, three of which contain the same player, meaning that only two of these team pairings could possibly compete against one another. When in reality, the game hasn't even come out yet and the whole "Success" section is really nothing more than an announcement of Wi-Fi multiplayer support for Brawl. Which everyone already knows about.


 * My tone is critical, yes, and you're probably already getting defensive but I assure you, it's nothing personal. Your article is not even CLOSE to being the worst, but it's still not an encyclopedia article and I only went off on a tangent in the hopes of clarifying why and hopefully improving it in the future. Most of the writers at SmashWiki are not really writers; instead, they're smashers and unfortunately for the SmashWiki, a lot of smashers are a bunch of teenagers who don't have a lot of experience writing publication quality material for the masses.


 * The most important thing to remember when making or editing an article is that the article is for EVERYONE, not just the people in your town, not just the crew members, but everyone. So, once you've done your editing, read the article again, but think as if you didn't write it and you are reading it for the first time. Read Omneox of Smash with that mentality and you can see that it doesn't really tell you anything at all. SmashWiki is an information source for smashers, just as Wikipedia is an information source for people. On the English Wikipedia, even simple articles like Laughter explain the subject of laughing so that any English-speaking person can understand what it is, even if they've never heard of it. On SmashWiki, the article should be able to explain itself so that any English-speaking smasher can understand what it's about...even if they've never heard of it. I'm an English-speaking smasher and I had never heard of the Omneox of Smash before reading your article. Now I've heard of it, but I still don't understand what it is based on the information provided. And it's not because I'm an idiot; it's because the article fails.


 * Also, sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). It's good wiki protocol. :^) -- RJM Talk 15:42, October 3, 2007 (EDT)


 * -- RJM Talk 15:42, October 3, 2007 (EDT)

OF COURSE I'm going to critical! I'm sorry, but you have to be one of the most rude persons I've ever talked to. All I wanted to know was maybe you thought it was interesting or not, not go off into some unessessary page of mind-bogiling blows.

You think we just wait around the DOJO, clicking refresh? First of all, I don't even have a computer, I use my Wii browser, and it's kinda hard to set things up and type things out letter by letter. Besides, what else is their to put? We haven't had any experiences with crew battles or anything, because brawl hasn't even released yet.

Validating means they have sent our site( freewebs.com/omneox) an application, and then the leaders will dertimine wether or not they make it. When SSBB is released, we will play a couple of matches with them, via online, and based on their offense, defense, etc. mmmmmmmkk?

The reason the article was created was just to get prepared. Also, Omneox was first introduced on smashboards, which, and I know you will, search for it on the site. Our thread was closed, so we don't have much publicity. Yes, it is because your an idiot. (N.O.) It clearly states in the first paragraph:

Omneox Of Smash (or OOS for short) is a gaming crew primarily dedicated to the Super Smash Bros. franchise. The members are spread vastly among the globe, making actual gameplay difficult. They relate mostly through discussing the series on SmashBoards, and hope to be more closely connected through the confirmed online play in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They plan on playing with and against each other casually and competitively. The crew is currently allied with Dawn Patrol.

That's everthing you need to know. The rest of the article just goes into futher detail. And DON'T use the word "teenager" the way you do, considering you are one yourself. Unless your some creepy 40 year old man.

I haven't updated this articles of the current members yet, because, once again, I have no computer. If you would be so kind as to go to our forums and put the members on there, then we wouldn't have a problem, would we. Heh, I thought we could have been friends. --


 * Dude...whoa! :^) We don't have a problem, I already said it's nothing personal and I'm just telling you what's wrong with the article. Now the only person dealing blows is you calling me an idiot for not being able to understand what a gaming crew that doesn't actually play games is supposed to be and why it deserves a spot in competitive smash history. As to the "teenager" remark, I don't mean it disparagingly, but what I say is valid: most of them are not prepared to be writing encyclopedic material. Many adults are just as bad, but generally have a better sense of what's worth posting and what's going to die a slow death on an underviewed page on the internet.


 * No need to get all touchy and defensive just as I predicted, it's not really an argument you can win. Especially when failing to acknowledge the wide scope of individuals that lie between the spectrum of "teenager" and "40 year old man." -- RJM Talk 03:09, October 10, 2007 (EDT)

deletion
the validity of the cloud page is very unlikely. it just seems like a personal nickname and does not deserve it's own article. also, stop deleting pages that simply need clean-up. FyreNWater - (Talk • Contributions ) 17:56, October 14, 2007 (EDT)


 * I would've said the same thing about the cloud page when I first came to SmashWiki, but since doing so, I've been surprised at how pervasive the phenomenon is, with players all across Canada and down into some of the northern states like Pennsylvania. When I went to TransCanada to meet and network with a variety of community players, it was actually quite remarkable how well the name had stuck within smaller communities. Hehe, I mean, ultimately I don't care one way or another about the article, but to delete it when there's piles and piles of more important work to be done is just unnecessary policing of an unwritten policy. There's something to be said for the character and lifeblood of the global smash community when certain bits of unofficial lingo catch on like that. It represent a unique wholeness of common interest that I feel deserves to be documented. :^)


 * And believe me, I wish I could delete pages that "simply need cleanup", but alas, all I can do is mark them for deletion and then have to deal with the comments from the authors who take it personally when the material isn't pertinent to an encyclopedia. -- RJM Talk 23:25, October 14, 2007 (EDT)

What the hell?
Why did you delete all of the new content from the Brawl article? Everything has been seen plain as day in impression videos, and it has sources on their respective pages. You just erased about an hour's worth of work without thinking! -Thores 22:07, October 14, 2007 (EDT)


 * You're going to have to be more specific (and probably learn a thing or two about the way a wiki works). I don't recall deleting all of the new content from anything, frankly. I seem to remember removing a Little Mac reference once, owing to the fact that there doesn't seem to be any confirmation of that whatsoever. In any case, it's impossible to "delete" an hour's worth of work without thinking on a wiki, as all edits are stored in the 'history' section of the page. -- RJM Talk 23:27, October 14, 2007 (EDT)
 * Seeing as there's no "revert/undo" option, it's a bit more of a pain to replace information here than most other wikis. And you didn't just remove the Little Mac reference, you also removed all the new items revealed in the demo (and those items DID have sources in their respective articles before you did so), and you also deleted Assist Trophies BESIDES Little Mac that did have sources (Jill and I think one other), and Poke Balls shown in the demo (though I think out of the ones you deleted, only Gardevoir had a source, so no big deal there). The point is that all took a lot of collective time to type from the combined contributors that put up the information, and then you erase it all without even checking for proof first, or bringing it up in the talk page. Yes, I can go back in the history and just copy/paste the stuff you deleted, but I shouldn't have had to. Please don't be so hasty in making your edits next time. -Thores 23:34, October 14, 2007 (EDT)
 * Listen, Thores, I know how to use discretion with my edits, but when piddling around on an article that a whole bunch of people are watching like a hawk and making ridiculous changes to on a daily basis, it's not surprising that more got deleted than I may have intended. But it's VERY SIMPLE to revert and undo changes. Exhibit A: The only edit I made on the whole article ever!


 * By clicking on Revision as of 11:08, October 14, 2007, it will take you to the older version of the article just prior to the changed I made. From there, select the handy-dandy "edit" tab from the top and VOILA! Mission comprete! I'll save you the trouble this time around, but thanks for pointing out the incorrect deletions. The only ones that I intentionally deleted were Little Mac and the Jill reference from Drill Dozer, so I have no idea what happened to the rest of them. Either way, it's a simple fix and nothing to get too riled up about.


 * You've taught me a valuable lesson though...I'm never editing a Brawl-related article again until the game's out already, Jesus! Can't do anything without upsetting a bunch of impatient fans. It's just a little depressing that of all the 800-some useful community-related edits I've contributed to this website, the only thing that gets noticed to be a big deal is some shoddy, unimportant change to a Brawl article. Ah well, the train keeps on rollin'. -- RJM Talk 23:48, October 14, 2007 (EDT)
 * Gee, thanks for informing little old me, but I already knew that, as evidenced by the following taken from my last reply: "Yes, I can go back in the history and just copy/paste the stuff you deleted, but I shouldn't have had to." That's all I was trying to say. And I DO notice all the contributions you make to this Wiki, and it's definitely appreciated because I know I wouldn't be able to contribute to the Smash-community-centric articles half as efficiently as you do. Which is partially why this particular edit annoyed me. You're usually a lot more careful and precise than that, so this seemed... out of character for you. If anyone else had done it, I'd probably just edit the stuff back in and go back to business. Anyways, yes, I see now that I've overreacted, but I'd still appreciate it if you took the condescending tone elsewhere next time. -Thores 00:17, October 15, 2007 (EDT)


 * Again, no copying and pasting is required, but right, I mean nothing by the tone, I'm just getting really tired of this crap on my talk page, because it encompasses such a small portion of what I actually put time into. Not your fault and nothing personal, but I can only dress up my public relations for the audience as a whole for so long before actually trying to make a point. Too many anonymous warriors on the internet try to use condescending tones against me just to try and win over the argument with aggression, whereas I prefer to supply some logic along with it. Messages tend to get lost when things start looking like insults, so I try to avoid them; but like I said, I can only be pushed so hard. -- RJM Talk 01:34, October 15, 2007 (EDT)

Smash Trophy
i totally blanked out and forgot that i have a free assignment in my 3D Art class. i have access to a wood shop and a metal shop. if you're interested, i can make something out of that. it will take more time and cost more, but i think it'll turn out quite nicely. FyreNWater - (Talk • Contributions ) 17:16, October 22, 2007 (EDT)


 * Time is running short, so it really depends on how quickly it could be completed and what it would cost. It's for a tournament in the middle of December, which is already a pretty high-budget event. I've anticipated having to make the trophy on my own, but let me know the details! :^) -- RJM Talk 17:22, October 22, 2007 (EDT)


 * alas, metal doesn't look very likely. i tried to weld today and was intimidated by lighting the freakin' torch. i think it's safer for me to stick with wood &/or clay. middle of December doesn't look too good. that's when i start my break. but feel free to contact me for future pieces! FyreNWater - (Talk • Contributions ) 20:31, October 23, 2007 (EDT)

Thanks
Thanks I appreciate Your support for the SSF article. Have you played it yet? The Chosen 11:05, October 23, 2007 (EDT)


 * No I haven't. Mostly because the article doesn't link to the game at all! :^) I'll have to run a search for it later on to give it a whirl. -- RJM Talk 12:34, October 23, 2007 (EDT)

this is ethan, why did u change my skill level???!!! Don't edit my page, please.
 * "Please note that all contributions to SmashWiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here." See here for reasoning. Also, signing your comments with four tildes ( ~ ) is a good start to life in the wiki. -- RJM Talk 09:26, October 24, 2007 (EDT)

Did you notice no one answered my question at the bottom of your link?

And thank you for trying to help my Omneox Of Smash page, but you put plenty of incorrect information....such as the members.

Ethanrodgers223 14:20, October 24, 2007 (EDT)ethanrodgers223