Forum:Anyone got an idea for a Brawl Tier list?

My personal opinion is that Pit and Metaknight should be near the top (fast, multihit attacks, multiple midair jumps, and the ability to glide). So should ROB (heavy, but great Up-B), and maybe Zero Suit Samus (fast, good recovery, incredible range, and the Paralyzer). Don't forget that Ike has the easiest-to-use Super Armor in the game, which, combined with Counter, can give him some great counterattack options.

Now, who should not be at the top?

...Feedback? Please? Runer5h 03:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC) Runer5h
 * Too early. Give it another few years, then come back and ask. FyreNWater - (Talk • Contributions ) 03:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

The thing is...SSBB is actually decently balanced. In my opinion, the only characters that suck are Bowser and Jigglypuff but that's just me, I usually just random.AzureDrake 04:38, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with AzureDrake. SSBB is really even, I haven't found many characters that overpower everyone else. The characters are all basically the same.--Richard 15:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah... maybe it is too early to decide just yet. But, why not start now. (Plus, I won't remember in a few years to ask again. :P) And even though Brawl is decently balanced, AzureDrake, I don't think that tiers won't come... eventually.Runer5h 16:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * However, top tier candidates: The Star Fox characters, Toon Link, Lucario, Ice Climbers (?). Just my three cents contributed. AzureDrake 19:46, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Toon Link is cool. Anyone heard of the Quickdraw? It's sort of like the SHL, and Toon Link is good at it. Starfox should definitely be at the top (as always), and Lucario... maybe. His characteristics can make him a dangerous fighter. Ice Climbers are cool, and now they have a Stall-Then-Fall aerial, so I don't think that their tier ranking will change much. Snake should be up there too, because of his 6 projectiles (don't believe me? Count them: Up Smash, Down Smash, Neutral B, Side B, Down B, and Up B (after he lets go)), and his use of the C4 to regain his Cypher (I call this the Cy-four :P) Now, who should be at the bottom? That could be tough. Oh, and are all three of Pokemon Trainer's pokemon counted together? Runer5h 19:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h
 * The precedent for transforming characters has been to count them separately so I would say each pokemon should be counted separated despite the timer. Personally I think the differences between tiers will be much less dramatic than it was in Melee as there seem to have been a lot of time spent balancing the characters against each other. I will even hazard a guess that half or more of the characters may even be tournament viable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.112.244.172 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Still, some low tiered characters would be Bowser, Yoshi, Ganondorf, and Jigglypuff (?) AzureDrake 04:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * How is Yoshi Low Tier? The boost he gets from the Egg Toss comes in handy. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 13:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, I was really tired and wasn't thinking straight that time. Yoshi's fine. Sonic is actually pretty deadly if you know how to use his Specials correctly. AzureDrake 11:34, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Sonic. He lacks projectiles but his speed makes up for that. If not a high character, he should at least be in the middle. --Riko 11:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC) Ness has possibly been buffed the most of all the veterans, save G & W. His PK fire traps now, his PK Flash is faster and might consequently actually hit someone now (maybe) and his PKT2 is devastating now (I've seen it kill Samus at 89%). His lack of a DJC is possibly an advantage as well; correctly timing a dair (which is much less laggy now, by the way,) in the middle of his second jump lets you get off a meteor stomp instantly at the end of a jump with no lag at all. His yo-yos are much more powerful now and set up combos easily as well as being incredibly versatile for hitting multiple enemies, and his bat is more powerful. His PSI magnet recovers 1.5X damage rather than 1 now too. The only move nerfed is his bair, but its still plenty powerful and easy to kill with. Were it not for his tether recovery, I'd say Olimar has incredible potential as well, but that fact drops him a bit. PT could be pretty high, we'll see how that develops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.111.199 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * He seems like he's much harder to get accustomed too than Lucas but a pro with him could beat a Lucas pro. He will probably be high-tiered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.124.192 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Marth or Fox should be top, ice climbers and diddy kong should be bottom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.163.18 (talk • contribs) 23:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wtf are you talking about, Ice climbers got a huge buff in Brawl and Diddy Kong is awesome. AzureDrake 01:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think Ike, Meta Knight, and Pit should be high-tier. From what I witness, not that I use alot, but Snake & R.O.B should also be top tier. Just my thought. The list won't develope for years. Sukarai stated he wants Brawl to be "equally balanced." Zmario 12:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

No the characters in Brawl are too balanced even Bowser would be middle tier, as Nintendo isn't fond of tier lists because they make each character equal only to have some guys make one, its an annoyance to Nintendo who has to develop these characters, so making Bowser or Jigglypuff low tier makes Nintendo feel that they did a poor job of making these characters, so if there isn't a tier list, we have a better chance of them making Super Smash Bros 4 if they feel that we appreciate their characters more. This is not my opinion its just fact. Dark Overlord 15:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * O.O, =.= I see what you did there AzureDrake 15:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

God tier, meta knight,pit,ROB,ike in that order. Jman97 4/13/08 13:00 EDT —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jman97 (talk • contribs) 17:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Marth,Falco and Pit should be at top Darkspatan117 17:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

How About A General Consensus??
How about a collection of members of this wiki on their personal tier list? The overall tier list would be the averages of those ranks. Each member would be give a certain number of points, let say 70 for now. They would distribute those points throughout the rooster. If they feel that all the character are the same, they can place 2 points on everyone. While someone like Jman97 would probably, probably, make MetaKnight a 7, Pit 6.5, ROB 6, and Ike 5.5 with the rest of the rooster voted lower like varying 5's and lower. I believe in this system to keep in check, users must be willing to have their respective ballot public (likely stored on their namespace). This could also be an advantage, you guys could have Tier of the Month/Best Tier or something in that nature, where if the majority agrees that a user has a clever grasp on the subject, you know - posting reason why or why not a character can be considered Top. With this idea, you now have a General Consensus of the Tier List with a second opinion of the Tier List voted best by the community. Questioning Yours Truly -Question Jack 19:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That is a damn good idea. And I would give a 7 to Olimar (my main). He's a bit weird, but he has great grab and smash range, and is incredibly versatile. Also, because he attacks with the Pikmin, if he is attacked at the same time, the Pikmin take damage, not him. Runer5h 18:32, 13 April 2008 (EDT)Runer5h

''My personal opinion is that Pit and Metaknight should be near the top (fast, multihit attacks, multiple midair jumps, and the ability to glide). So should ROB (heavy, but great Up-B), and maybe Zero Suit Samus (fast, good recovery, incredible range, and the Paralyzer). Don't forget that Ike has the easiest-to-use Super Armor in the game, which, combined with Counter, can give him some great counterattack options.''

Yes, they have good combos, but meta Knight is screwed if he misses one and pit's up b can easily be stunted, putting an end to his recovery. High Tier. Rob Is good, yes. Top Tier. ZSS, not too much. Range is OK, not extraordinary. She's somewhat not too strong and is pretty light and her recovery SUCKS because it's Easily edgehoggable. Low tier. Ike has nice Super armor, but regardless, his recovery is bad and he is very slow and so is his counter and the rest of his moves (eruption takes forever to chrage and you never hit anyone). Remember that Marth, Meta Knight and Lucario can counter too. Mid tier.

Star fox...not...good...anymore...at all! Can't kill for beans except wolf. Sorry guys, but only wolf deserves to be top.

I'll rank mine Out of 10 A lot of Top, High and Mid Tier Characters got nerfed. Bad. -Fox Sucks Nut now, He can't combo and his Uair can't kill. 7 -Falco too. His Side smash sucks and his blaster is slow and his reflector is GAY. 6.5 -Peach's D-smash sucks now and her turnips suck too. She really sucks. 5.5 -Shiek isn't strong, can't kill and has no combo ability. 6 -CF...OMFG sucks so bad now can't really combo and his moves are slower. 4 -Ice Climbers are really bad without wavedashing and are dead when they split up. 2

The only GOOD Character that wasn't totally nerfed is Marth. I'd say he's improved. He has better knockback, can still combo and has cooler hair. 9.5

3 people I've noticed are a lot better now are Luigi, Kirby and Mr Game and Watch. They are stronger, and can combo like crazy. Kirby has 2 meteors now and luigi can do any 2 aerials in 1 short hop. Mr G and W is the combo king, enough said. 8, 8 and 8.5

Newcomers who impress me: -Toon Link. Crazy strong, crazy fast and good recovery (jumps are so high!) 9 -Sonic. Ditto and like 3 times faster than CF 9 -Pit. Recovery God 8 -Wolf. Powerhouse 8.5 -Lucas. Didn't expect this but wow 8.5 -R.O.B. PWNZ 9

Didy Kong isn't as great as he sounds. He can't really KO and most of his moves are weak. He's light and floaty and his recovery is mediocre. He's small but only as fast as Marth. But don't get me wrong, he's good! His bananas are annoying and some of his moves are pretty strong! Al in all he's really pretty strong! 8

Olimar is really good at camping but he has one of the worst recoveries in the game. 7.5

Meta knight is Pretty good. Nice combo ability, but is screwed if he misses a hit. 8

Ike and Link are strong, but too Slow to keep up with the fast paced gameplay of certain characters like marth or R.O.B. or Diddy. 5.5 and 5.5

Here's how I think the top few tiers will look like:

Top Tier: Marth, Toon Link, R.O.B., Wolf, Diddy Kong

High Tier: Lucas, Game and Watch, Kirby, Sonic, Meta Knight, Pit, Luigi, PKMN Trainer

Middle Tier: Olimar, Mario, Fox, Shiek, Peach, Falco, Peach, Ike, Link

Low Tier Dedede, Samus, Wario, Snake, DK, Yoshi, Zero Suit Samus

Bottom Tier: Zelda, CF, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Bowser, Jigglypuff

That's basically all I have to say.-SHOK —Preceding unsigned comment added by SHOK (talk • contribs) 00:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You really think so, Runer5h? I was really proud of the idea and hopefully it will be at least considered.
 * I think the character I would be afraid of in terms of strategy would be Diddy Kong. He has multiple abilities (Wall Cling, Wall Jump, Crawling). Interesting speed on the ground and in the air. Equipped with a projectile and mines. The mines, or Bananas, can be relocated and if the opponent nabs them you can always Dash Attack over one to pick them up (this also applies to the ones your enemy places, too). His Monkey Flip, Side-B, has numerous possibilities, you can even turn it into a kick at the last second. Not only that, his Monkey Flip can spike in midair.  An pretty good recovery (potential to be long range and curved with understandable restrictions). Diddy's down tilt even has set knockback. Probably can be used for putting space between you and your opponent. You may even charge your gun during this. Awesome at that sliding Up-Smash. You also always thrown you Bananas while rolling forward. That's all I can think of for now.
 * So thanks for the input, Runer5h. Try to pass the word if you like.
 * Questioning Yours Truly Question Jack 03:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey, SHOK. Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, tethers edgeguard you! Russian Reversal aside, though, tether recoveries make good edgehogs. Why? Because you aren't at the edge, but you are still grabbing it, so you can be harder to knock off the edge. Olimar can have the best tether, so he is good at edgehogging. Oh and about Zamus; use her Down-B as a third jump. Runer5h 15:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h


 * Ike is good and should not be overated he has actually the easiest super armor in the game.He is strong has a good recovery.The only reason I dont give him a 9 it beacuase of it slow dash spped and very slow attack speed, 8 Darkspatan117 22:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just why is everyone putting R.O.B so high? He's slow, his smashes are weak, most of his specials require charging, which is a trait shared with his recovery, he can't put damage on without labor, is easily juggled, and easily taken advantage of in general, and as if more evidence is needed, his range for everything but his specials is pathetic. His powerful moves such as his back air and spike generally require that you lead your opponent because they move him in unusual ways. His side B, though it can reflect projectiles, isn't particularly effective and leaves him vulnerable both at its beginning and end. His A moves are generally unimpressive, and though he is modestly heavy, it doesn't make up for how incredibly vulnerable his is to just about player with skill above that of a carrot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.171.212 (talk • contribs) 23:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Because, young grasshopper, he has (after Pit) the best Up-B in the game. His bair moves him forward, which is very good, and the charging time thing isn't as much of a problem as it seems to be. It means no spamming, but who cares? His projectiles are quite nice. The Gyro is really fast, and remains a hazard even after it hits the ground (if fully charged, it should remain spinning for 10 seconds or so). The Robo Beam can be angled, it bounces, and it goes uber if left unused for a while. So, does that answer your question? Points taken, but he's still awesome. Runer5h 01:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h


 * I concur with the previous users' sentiments regarding ROB and would like an opportunity to demonstrate his deficiencies to you first hand, if you would. I would be quite willing to exchange friend codes via email and play against you, if you are up to it. semicolon —Preceding unsigned comment added by semicolon (talk • contribs) 01:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, what I said was uncalled for. Sorry. But I don't have a friend code yet - I'll have to get back to you. Runer5h 15:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h

Final Smash
does final smashes affect the tiers?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.106.191 (talk • contribs) 10:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, first sign your comment. Secondly, items aren't usually allowed in tournaments. So no.--King Dedede Kirby 13:20, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My thoughts: I suppose one could be made. Ranking FSmashes can also be incorporated into my idea (explained above - under How About A General Consensus??)
 * Questioning Yours Truly Question Jack 14:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

i dont think a tier can be made for this game... the characters are all fairly well balanced and i keep hearing about jigglypuff and bowser being at the bottom they should at least be middle because bowser may be heavy and slow but his knockback and damage make up for it and jigglypuff may be light and weak but its air speed and capabilities make up for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.120.161.3 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC

How is snakes down smash a projectile, AzureDrake? and I personally think he will be banned from tournaments. plus, final smashes could affect a possible tier list! don't any of you know the "pity final smash" as sakurai put it? PeetzaLink 19:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The Pity Final Smash doesn't work if Smash Balls are turned off. And how would Snake be banned from tournaments? He's good, but not that good. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 21:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait wait wait. You think that a character should be banned from tournaments? You're kidding. (Oh, and for why Snake's down smash is a projectile: see this page. Runer5h 23:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h

Ness has possibly been buffed the most of all the veterans, save G & W. His PK fire traps now, his PK Flash is faster and might consequently actually hit someone now (maybe) and his PKT2 is devastating now (I've seen it kill Samus at 89%). His lack of a DJC is possibly an advantage as well; correctly timing a dair (which is much less laggy now, by the way,) in the middle of his second jump lets you get off a meteor stomp instantly at the end of a jump with no lag at all. His yo-yos are much more powerful now and set up combos easily as well as being incredibly versatile for hitting multiple enemies, and his bat is more powerful. His PSI magnet recovers 1.5X damage rather than 1 now too. The only move nerfed is his bair, but its still plenty powerful and easy to kill with. Were it not for his tether recovery, I'd say Olimar has incredible potential as well, but that fact drops him a bit.

Well, the idea of Snake being banned from tournaments isn't exactly what you think I mean. I go to this thing at the library in my city where we just play games for about 2 hours. I always play smash bros there, and we sometimes have items on. after seeing the devastaing affect of his final smash, we (the people who ply it there) decided to ban him from items matches. PeetzaLink 19:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * His Final Smash, while devastating when you start up a combo, has incredible lag. A good player knows how to dodge them. And why is my name in your last edit? AzureDrake 21:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Since I was talking to you, I figured that I would put the link for your name. PeetzaLink 19:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Final Smashes shouldn't be tournament legal. I've played in tournaments with Smash Balls turned on, and even at very low with no other items, a smash ball pops up once a minute. Annoying as hell. Maybe you could hack the game so that smash balls appear once a match or something, but otherwise, no FSs.64.19.146.170 15:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h
 * Or at least hack so only pity FSs come out. AzureDrake 18:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That said (responding to you, AD, and my own comment), were FSs to be allowed, it would really help a lot of people. Olimar can rack up massive damage, Marth can KO really well... conversely, Peach and Zamus would go down, as they can never KO with their FSs. EVER. (Except on scrolling stages, when you fall asleep from Peach Blossom and scroll off to your death.) Considering everything, Marth is probably at or near the top - great combos, fast, and arguably best FS. This puts Olimar up too (do you see a bias?), but my friend, playing as Metaknight, once avoided taking any damage from End of Day. It was awesome. Runer5h 18:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)Runer5h

IMO, Marth's isn't very good. You can SD with it. AND while it can KO three bowsers from 0%, who's is going to be stupid enough to line up in front of him, anyway? You guys need to learn that. huntercrunch —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huntercrunch (talk • contribs) 01:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Ike should be top tier
Ike should easily be top tier. He is strong, and heavy, with good moves and an amazing up B. He may be slow, but he has a vast quantity of moves that make up for that. Plus, if someone tries to range at him, he always has counter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ike6481 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Totally. He is so awesome that his moves are slow enough that even Helen Keller could see them coming. Don't mistake 'easy to play with modest efficacy' and 'good'.Semicolon 18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)semicolon