User talk:Sannse


 * You may want to rmove dr. Pain's rights too. He is abusing them. Jello Rabbit (talk) 19:16, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Well well well
Ok Sannse. It's obvious that the Wikia Staff wrote this entire Wiki. They wrote this entire Wiki, including the Master Hand glitch page I didn't spend hours writing and testing the glitch for it. They also patrolled the Wiki for hours a day, reverting faulty edits, correcting spelling and grammar errors, and getting rid of vandalism, something I had no part in. That thing at the top of the page that says you have "12" edits must be awfully inaccurate, as you helped write our key articles; they obviously weren't written by Toomai or Omega Tyrant. Since the Wikia staff wrote this entire Wiki, and listened to the community's feedback (For example, when the New Wikia Look was announced, the community hated it, so the Wikia Staff abandoned it and stuck with Monaco to please the community. They also let us set the default skin to Monobook. How generous of them.), the Wiki must be theirs and they should be able to do what they want with it. A bunch of users who weren't with the Wiki a long time moved the Wiki, and not the people who spent their time and effort writing it. Wikia is losing Wikis and users, so obviously Wikia is doing a great job as a Wiki farm. Last but not least, those who work at Wiki are not complete imbeciles because they care about their Wikis' communities and not about the money they get from their annoying, virus-infested advertisements. ط ب ي ب ك  ا ل أ ل م  ت س ع ة  و ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} 21:28, June 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * You and 5819 other logged in users (and many anon users) wrote this wiki, yes. Then you and a couple of others vandalized it.  The first doesn't change the second.  You have the right to fork, you don't have the right to vandalize the wiki you have chosen to leave.  -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  21:52, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should have the right. The Wiki left. The only reason this Wiki stands is because a certain group of selfish people refuse to remove it, as they would lose money if they did. Only a complete imbecile would claim that this Wiki should remain standing when the community who loved and gave care to it moved it when the ignorant, idiotic Wikia Staff decided to stop caring about their users. Do you write Wikis? I don't think so, tbh, what gives you the right to dictate what we do? <font color=#00FF00>ط <font color=#00FF09>ب <font color=#00FF12>ي <font color=#00FF1B>ب <font color=#00FF24>ك <font color=#00FF2D> ا <font color=#00FF37>ل <font color=#00FF42>أ <font color=#00FF5C>ل <font color=#00FF66>م <font color=#00FF77> ت <font color=#00FF88>س <font color=#00FF99>ع <font color=#00FFAA>ة <font color=#00EEAA> و <font color=#00DDAA>ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} [[file:DoctorPain99.png|19px]] 22:21, June 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * When you use this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. These include licensing the content under a free license (which allows you to fork, and allows us to continue to use the content after that) and not damaging wikis with vandalism.
 * I've been involved in wikis since 2002 (including more than 16800 edits on Wikipedia before I moved to Wikia) but that's really not the point. The point is that whether you decide to fork or not, the wiki remains for anyone who wants to use it.  Did you know that the Spanish Wikipedia forked in early 2002?  Should that mean that there is no Spanish Wikipedia now?  That's not what happened.  Instead, the wiki remained in place and a new community grew - and the Spanish Wikipedia is now healthy and active again.  This wiki should have the same chance to revive - without petty vandalism or other damage from those who have left. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  23:19, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * If the Wiki has a right to fork, it should also have a right to move, Sannse. The SmashWiki is now located here, and this place should not even exist. Maybe you wouldn't have Wikis forking or moving if you listened to the community and their opinions every once in a while? Obviously, you are too stupid to realize that what you are doing is disrespectful to all of the people who's comments you ignored when you changed the skin choices without consensus. We would not have this problem right now if you knew how Wikis and communities worked. <font color=#00FF00>ط <font color=#00FF09>ب <font color=#00FF12>ي <font color=#00FF1B>ب <font color=#00FF24>ك <font color=#00FF2D> ا <font color=#00FF37>ل <font color=#00FF42>أ <font color=#00FF5C>ل <font color=#00FF66>م <font color=#00FF77> ت <font color=#00FF88>س <font color=#00FF99>ع <font color=#00FFAA>ة <font color=#00EEAA> و <font color=#00DDAA>ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} 23:34, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * The community, and the individual users, have the right to move. What they don't have is the right to tear up the wiki behind them.  All I ask is that you move on peacefully and allow this wiki to recover (or not) on it's own.  (I'm going to continue to ignore the insults, and am not going to go back over old arguments about the skin)  -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  18:19, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems you are too stupid or too arrogant to accept that you are wrong. You can't even acknowledge our community decisions and rules. Good day, and good riddance. <font color=#00FF00>ط <font color=#00FF09>ب <font color=#00FF12>ي <font color=#00FF1B>ب <font color=#00FF24>ك <font color=#00FF2D> ا <font color=#00FF37>ل <font color=#00FF42>أ <font color=#00FF5C>ل <font color=#00FF66>م <font color=#00FF77> ت <font color=#00FF88>س <font color=#00FF99>ع <font color=#00FFAA>ة <font color=#00EEAA> و <font color=#00DDAA>ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} [[file:DoctorPain99.png|19px]] 22:12, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Reply

 * Was on my to-do list on Wikia :D. Jello Rabbit (talk) 21:57, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Are you the right one to ask?
I'm trying to help fix this spam, but doing it as a standard user is hard. Could you promote me to help fix it all? - DavvyParsons (talk) 22:27, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * She is the right one to ask, because though she gives nothing but trouble to this Wiki, she has power over all of us. <font color=#00FF00>ط <font color=#00FF09>ب <font color=#00FF12>ي <font color=#00FF1B>ب <font color=#00FF24>ك <font color=#00FF2D> ا <font color=#00FF37>ل <font color=#00FF42>أ <font color=#00FF5C>ل <font color=#00FF66>م <font color=#00FF77> ت <font color=#00FF88>س <font color=#00FF99>ع <font color=#00FFAA>ة <font color=#00EEAA> و <font color=#00DDAA>ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} [[file:DoctorPain99.png|19px]]

Hi Davvy. Thanks for the help :) rollback won't help by the look of it, they used a couple of nicks on each page to make that more awkward. And I'd rather wait on Admin rights until things are calmer.  But hopefully one of the VSTF can help out - they have scripts to repair damage like this -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  23:19, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, what?
Any particular reason this occurred?  Penguin  of  Death   00:14, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

I also want to know of any precent for removing the rights of some (but not all) competent admins just because none of them happened to be around during a vandal attack. Toomai Glittershine 03:22, July 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi both. This was a bit of an emergency situation, and I removed bureaucrat, admin and rollback rights from everyone temporarily.  That included inactive admins (and even a VSTF member who had rollback here) as well as all the sock and vandal admin/b'crat rights that had been added.  This wasn't because people weren't around, this was because the situation was confused and it was safer to clear everyone quickly and look at who to add back later.  Jello Rabbit and Megatron1 have been added back so far (their admin rights had already been removed by one of the vandals), but I'm also happy to add back others who are going to be active (and non-destructive) members of this wiki.  -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  18:19, July 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * As the primary admin and bureaurat of SmashWiki I do not condone vandalism of our old apartment, and as such my staff rights should remain; had I not been busy with other things and seen something was going down I would have punted the offenders and fixed the damage so none of the bupkis would have happened. Also, Jello Rabbit's adminship rights were never agreed to by any community that I'm aware of (his RfA over a month ago quickly failed due to having too few edits), so I don't know why he was given admin powers. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 18:57, July 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm glad to hear you don't support those who vandalized. At the moment, I'm only going to replace rights of those who are actively involved here - others don't need rights they aren't using anyway.
 * Jello Rabbit's rights were originally given to him by the active bureaucrat. That's acceptable, the old community had moved on, the new one has the opportunity to choose policies and norms that suit them.  It'll take time for the new community to grow enough to the point where RfAs and so on work best. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  23:55, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look more closely at Special:log/rights, you can clearly see that Jello Rabbit had his adminship revoked, not by Piratehunter, but by the very person who gave it to him, Megatron1. Jello Rabbit's actions clearly showed he was incapable of adminship, and he hasn't shown differently. <font color=#00FF00>ط <font color=#00FF09>ب <font color=#00FF12>ي <font color=#00FF1B>ب <font color=#00FF24>ك <font color=#00FF2D> ا <font color=#00FF37>ل <font color=#00FF42>أ <font color=#00FF5C>ل <font color=#00FF66>م <font color=#00FF77> ت <font color=#00FF88>س <font color=#00FF99>ع <font color=#00FFAA>ة <font color=#00EEAA> و <font color=#00DDAA>ت <font color=#00CCAA>س <font color=#00BBAA>ع <font color=#00AAAA>و <font color=#0099AA>ن  {PIRATE-NET} 01:16, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was an accident k? I know better now. I said no flaming at me, etc. or you will be banned. I am giving you another chance. Jello Rabbit (talk) 11:27, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see I did misread that. However, given Jello Rabbit's vast work in cleaning up the vandalism by you and others, I think he's shown he should keep those rights for now. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  01:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Megatron1

 * Can you please promote him again to bureaucrat and sysop? He is legit and has removed some spam. Jello Rabbit (talk) 11:32, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've given him his admin rights back. I'm going to hold off a little on bureaucrat rights for now, because I'd like to check before each admin is added/re-added for now.  Best to be a bit careful after this week's problems :-/ -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  18:19, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its k. Mega was legit and I spotted this vandalism and got a team to clean it up. Did'ya know that? Jello Rabbit (talk) 19:01, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that :) good for you -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  23:55, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Reply

 * Only the lowercase ones who auto-redirect to the capitals as they have no use or the mispelled, or merged words. If you have a problem with it, i'll stop. Thank you. Jello Rabbit (talk) 18:40, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally don't think it's needed, that redirects help people who spell things wrong to find the right page... but it's up to you :) --  sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  23:55, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Spotlight

 * Good news, I have decided to populate this wiki more by using *this and the steps with it. I have already done the first step to it, moving the Main Page to SmashWikia, the site's name. So I will get to the rest. Jello Rabbit (talk) 13:24, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Talk pages
I deleted some of the advertising talk pages where people said come move to this SmashWiki as I see it as spamming talk pages. If you object that just tell me. I am in charge of Pikmin Wikia and I delete those pages as I think it is spam. Is this okay what I am doing? Thanks. Jello Rabbit (talk) 16:52, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you understood the rules/culture of this wiki you would know that removing any sort of talk page content is not allowed. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 17:02, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Deleting and removing talk page content is different. I thought you could remove spam/flaming talk page content, but I learn the rules of this wikia via experience. Deleting a page with something like Go to this SmashWiki I suppose could delete because it is advertising around Wikia... Jello Rabbit (talk) 17:04, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Even in that case, though, I think it would be best to have the permission of the owner of the talk page first. Mr. Anon (talk) 17:25, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still learnin... Jello Rabbit (talk) 17:37, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Toomai: the rules and culture of this wiki are whatever the current community decides them to be. It's clear from your user page and comments that you have moved on. You can't leave a wiki and decide on its rules.

Jello Rabbit: I wouldn't worry about talk pages or user pages with old notices on about the other wiki. If someone keeps coming back to this wiki to promote the other, or to repeatedly tell newbies to move, then that's spamming (and they are likely to get banned from Wikia completely). But old discussions and people who used to be here having a message on their user pages are generally fair enough (unless someone tries to use that for large-scale spam). Better to concentrate on growing new content and reviving the community here with new editors, than worrying about the user pages of those who have left -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  01:32, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Jello Rabbit's Adminship and Megatron1's Bureaucratship
&rarr; copied from User talk:Randomtime

"Piratehunter revoked Megatron1's adminship (but not bureaucratship, as that's not possible), but Sannse revoked his bureaucratship in the "resetting rights". Sannse has restored Megatron1 his adminship and also given Jello Rabbit adminship. Jello Rabbit has already proven himself to be incapable of being a sysop at the moment, not to say he can't earn admin privileges later, but for now he's not ready. Megatron1 should have his bureaucrat rights restored as he did nothing wrong, and Jello Rabbit should be demoted as the community decided he's not ready for adminship yet. <font face="Megadeth, Arial Black"><font color="#FF2400">DoctorPain99 {PIRATE-NET} <font face="Megadeth, Arial Black"> (Talk • Contribs)  00:14, July 3, 2011 (UTC)"
 * YOu are the only one complaining about this. No-one else is. Stop it. Jello Rabbit (talk) 12:22, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was also complaining about this, if you hadn't noticed. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 13:04, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Though I don't exactly oppose your adminship, Jello, I think it is best for you to ask Megatron1 (the current bureaucrat) about this. Mr. Anon (talk) 18:55, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Dr. Pain 99: you lost all right to have any say in how this wiki is run when you vandalized it. I will not be replying to any further messages from you.

Toomai: I acknowledge that you were not part of that vandalism, but as I said above, you can't leave a wiki and decide how it should be run. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I see this as the same as if someone who left the wiki in 2006 came to ssbwiki and told you that you had to do things the way they wanted. It's time for those who moved with the fork to let this wiki be and allow it to revive (or not) on it's own merits.

Jello Rabbit: I agree with Mr. Anon that it's good to work closely with Magatron1 here. You are doing great work in cleaning up, but it's definitely key to talk things over with fellow admin. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  01:39, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Excuse me Sannse, but you have not yet addressed the question Toomai asked, and that is will Megatron1's bureaucratship be restored? Mr. Anon (talk) 02:11, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Um, no Sannse. Just because I vandalized the Wiki does not mean I lost all right to have any say in how this Wiki is run. What sense does that make? I'm a user who is part of this community and I have the right to voice my opinion. Ditto about Toomai. Just because he is a bureaucrat at the other Wiki and helped move it (and I say move because if the Wikia Staff were any less selfish they would have let the Wiki move with the users instead of claiming ownership to our content). The user base as a whole does not feel that Jello Rabbit is ready for adminship quite yet, so at the very least the community's will should be done (this Wiki shouldn't even exist. SmashWiki has found a new location). "I will not be replying to any further messages from you. ", eh? That just shows more incompetence in you. Wiki administration (or in this case "staff", which I think it's ridiculous that you earn money for doing a poor job as a Wiki Farm moderator when the actual writers and administrators do it for free) should be able to deal with conflict and not just say, "I'm not going to deal with it, because I can't." Finally, Toomai and I have valid reasons why Jello Rabbit should not be an administrator, and your argument is "you aren't part of the community", when you were never part of this community, and don't understand anything about it or its rules. Funny to mention that your sig doesn't even follow the rules. I suppose your argument for that is "we're the staff; we don't have to follow the rules". Well, if the staff doesn't even follow the rules, 1) why should we? and 2) why should they get any say? Happy Independence Day Sannse!!!! How the old community loves being independent from you.  Do c t o rP a i n 99  03:59, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry about your talk page being spammed with messages. (Well... not spam, but lots of messages.) Jello Rabbit (talk) 10:26, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

If I had left this wiki, I wouldn't be here discussing it with you now would I? I haven't ever actually left here; I usually checked two or three times a day for spam and vandalism, and for a time I was pushing for the wiki to become something else so it wouldn't be in direct competition with SmashWiki (win-win situation); when that failed I was thinking up a way to make the two wikis competitive in a good way (before all this interrupted it). Also, how do you expect a new community to form if you won't let the old one help them with the rules and such? Toomai Glittershine 18:45, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * K... and not much not contributors r here that are new now. Jello Rabbit (talk) 19:32, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Anon (and Toomai): Apologies for getting sidetracked from the question... yes, I will restore Megatron1's bureaucrat rights. But at the moment I'm still worried about what happened, and so don't want to rush to that. Vandalism by admins on that level is very unusual, and I'm concerned that rights might be given to someone who it later turns out agrees with what was done and who does the same.

Jello Rabbit: I don't mind messages :) I may not always be able to get to the quickly, but I'll always try to get back to them as soon as possible

Toomai: You asked "how do you expect a new community to form if you won't let the old one help them " - well in some cases... the same way the first one formed. The best thing for a community is (usually) to have a continuity of experienced editors for new users to learn from. But I've seen wikis that have started again from scratch, and where the style of the new community is different from the old. I'd be happy with either of those outcomes, although my preference would always be for continuity and stability. The only option I don't want is for damage to be done by those who have moved on. We've seen that happen in it's most destructive form with vandalism by admins here... and I'm concerned about the more subtle form of "admining this wiki for the benefit of the fork". This is a really tricky stage for any wiki, and it's good to hear that you are still keen to be part of its regrowth. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  05:24, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Just delete this wiki you stupid bitch!!!
 * To be honest with you, I agree with the IP.  Do c t o rP a i n 99  18:02, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

The forum I deleted

 * Was it okay if I deleted the forum about people discussing the future of this wiki? It may be an old discussion, but I decide that fanon is not allowed on this wiki as Megatron deleted it too. Besides, it may influence one if he/she reads it or something like that. I just think it is unreasonable at this moment. Jello Rabbit (talk) 11:04, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Regardless, forums follow the rules of talk pages, which means they shouldn't be deleted. Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 13:56, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Check out the sitenotices

 * You may want to check out the sitenotice on starfy.wikia.com and starfox.wikia.com as they are advertising on the NIWA versions. Jello Rabbit (talk) 11:44, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Communities should be given a week or so to show that they moved to NIWA via direct link. Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 13:33, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh those are old ones, they should have gone by now. We've not worried too much about finding old notices to tidy though, most people don't use monobook anyway :)  -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  00:56, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you please promote Megatron1 back to bureaucrat? Mr. Anon (talk) 01:03, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Please see my reply above (actually, it's likely to be DaNASCAT who promotes him, when he thinks the wiki is stable enough for that change) -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  02:48, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

The Wiki's current state
Been a while since last talking to you. Check out how the wiki is doing now in its healthy state since that June/July 2011 incident. I guess a healthy community can grow anywhere as you said :D. P.S. I am keeping Donkey Kong Wiki in a healthy shape and turned it into one of the most resourceful DK resource on the web. What do you think? Oh, I almost forgot; I am actually Jello Rabbit who had been renamed to this name in August. Conker&#39;s Bad Fur Day (talk) 01:50, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's really great to see that this wiki and the DK wiki are happy and stable again. You and the others in the community have done a wonderful job :)  And I see you have over 5000 edits here now too! It's a good wiki, and congratulations to you on making it a healthy one :) -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  22:46, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Block
You can see one big troll is on the fourm you just posted and hes causing trouble. Ik of a few other trolls who have edited a poll on this wiki to make it complete random stuff and cussing and also called me names and cuss words. I believe these should be blocked.

Also I would like if me and Dark Oni Link can be admins and crats to ban these guys ourselfs and if Bingbangpoe can be rollback due to his love of wanting to help out this wiki. Also if we can get chat up I have an idea for a chat mod. TheUltraman (talk) 23:05, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Bagel
So this is how Staff runs a wiki? They delete the comments of people they disagree with? Man, that's as low as Soviet Russia. You should be ashamed of yourself. F*** You Sannse (talk) 00:00, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Return
This troll has returned and has said he will keep making new accounts, IP's, and that he isnt scared of you. His new name is also insulting you and he has other accounts that are telling him "nice job!". TheUltraman (talk) 00:08, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Redundancy?
To quote a user: '"If you really cared about creating new and successful communities, you would encourage new users to start from scratch to create a healthy new wiki that is different from and could compete with the wiki that moved." The fact is, why should we let this one be? With over 95% of the community leaving to move onto the nicely documented other half, what's the use of this? As a long-time user of many known wikis, the step to all of it is how well it can be done. This video quite nicely documented the effects of what leaving to other newbound places can do to one another, and, in fact, source? I want to see what a community with over 90% of the user demographic leaving to the more favorable choice has done besides this one, which, quite literally is in pieces? And, no with that, I wish you a bad bagel and lack of tech skill. Demolisher34 (talk) 21:37, August 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Please see my reply on the forum -- sannse (help forum | blog)  21:58, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * In the forum, you still have not answered why we should improve this wiki if there already is a better wiki with more people looking after it, more information, and better quality and up-to-date articles. TheSMASHFan (talk) 00:07, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not asking you to. I'm asking you to allow others to, if they choose to do so. That's a very different thing.  I'm asking you to respect their choice and leave them be, that's all.


 * But if you are asking "why should there be two wikis on the same topic", my reply is "why not?". There's more than one website about race cars, or cooking, or even (probably) cooking in race cars.  The same goes for wikis.  Although wikis that can attract the majority of people interested in their topic will grow most effectively, that doesn't mean that there is never space for more than one wiki per topic - it's a wide wide web out there.  In this case, there's the complication that both are starting with the same content.  But they will diverge over time, and have their own character as they do.  That's why it's called a fork - the road starts going in the same direction, but then forks into two possibilities. -- sannse  (help forum | blog)  01:12, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * The majority of the people interested in this topic would probably want to visit the wiki that covers a wider variety of aspects on that topic. A small minority of people would be attracted to the only thing I see this wiki has that the ssbwiki lacks, which is fanon. Since there is already a fanon wiki already, I don't see why people would be attracted to a wiki that doesn't have anything special to offer. The race car and cooking wikis probably have rivalries because they probably cover the same stuff, and the competition just leads to angry tensions and less cooperation then they would if there was just one, or if they cover their own unique things. TheSMASHFan (talk) 02:21, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Why not? There's more than one website about race cars, or cooking, or even (probably) cooking in race cars. The same goes for wikis."


 * Just because everyone does something some way doesn't make it automatically right, and just because there's two sites for race cars doesn't automatically mean there has to be two wikis. TheSMASHFan (talk) 14:51, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

More Bagel
Since the forum/message board thing is dumb and doesn't work on proxies, I guess I'll put my reply here. I am appalled at what you think is "moral" here. Me trying to prevent your plan to take our hard work and turn it into ad revenue is immoral, but plagiarism isn't? You really need to have your compass evaluated. If you want to have any standing about "morals", you should not be part of a company that forced purchased many Wikis with dubious legality, and you shouldn't have ignored community consensus in favor of selfish benefit when you implemented the skin/forced forked wikis to remain. So really, who's the one that is in no position to talk about "morals"?

Those "some" users that copied the Wiki have more right to it than new users (and you) because they actively participated in writing the wiki and weren't just "some" users, they were the wikis main contributors. I joined when the main contributors wanted the Wiki to be hosted here, now they don's. Simple as that.

Let's say you keep this Wiki. Fine. But here's what should be done to the benefit of both Wikis.
 * 1) Stop acting like old users are the bad guys. Other than me and my secret team of users, the SmashWiki users have good intentions and would like to help this Wiki. Let them be.
 * 2) Declone the content. Not only is it wrong to keep content here that the old writers don't want, it would benefit you to revise it as it will differentiate the Wikis and help gain this specific wiki recognition.
 * 3) A name change, again to differentiate from the old wiki to the benefit of both.
 * 4) Change up the style a bit to again, change the Wiki from the old one.
 * 5) Don't enable dumb features like the message board. They don't work properly and defeat the purpose of a wiki

If a new community can't do those things, then starting a new wiki from scratch is what I request. It is asinine to ignore the community request that this Wiki remain exactly how we moved it, for both wiki's sakes. If you can do these things, unblock me so I can continue to edit actively where I do (I'd also like access to my friend SGHVX's account. She appears to have forgotten her password.), then I can assure you that I will leave this Wiki alone and encourage healthy competition. My problem here is that you're forcing our content, style, and name to remain against out will. If there were a Wikia Smash Wiki genuinely created to be different from us, then I won't have a problem with it (which includes not having copies of our articles). I'd rather a new Wiki be started, but those things I listed above will suffice. I'm assuming I'll probably just be ignored and blocked again because that's what you people do, but I hope that everyone here at least understands my ongoing issue with this wiki. <font color=#010080>D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o<font color=#790080>rP a i n 9 9  00:22, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I also concur with the statement above as truly factual, and would also request my account ban to be lifted. A simple disruption I caused on one shouldn't affect me on all others for no good reason whatsoever. Airconny (talk)
 * I would also like my block removed, if only because it takes away my ability to perform administrative actions on one wiki. I have tried the Special:Contact thing you mentioned in the forum, but I was perhaps a bit too crass to merit an actual response.  123 James  Heart  01:10, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Dr. Pain: I think that talking morals is pointless, and I regret responding to your earlier remark. I believe that vandalizing and disrupting any wiki is wrong, you believe that doing so for a good cause isn't. You see Wikia's business as unethical, I believe you have a distorted view of that. Even on plagiarism, something I have strong views about, we disagree on whether reusing content that the author has specifically given legal permission to reuse is plagiarism or not.

Anyway. to your points:

1. I am not saying that old users are the bad guys. Most of them have left Wikia (or at least, this wiki), are using the new wiki, and I wish them all the best for the future. I mentioned two possible motivations for the admins staying here, and I acknowledge Toomai's reassurance of his good intentions, with thanks.

However, those of you that are using sock accounts, proxies, deception and lies to damage this wiki are definitely the bad guys. All I can say is that I hope the other users on your home wiki have the same opinion of you that I do.

2. The content will be naturally decloned as the wikis develop, simply by people editing the various articles. The current users have as much right to the current content (both morally and legally) as anyone else.

3. A name change would likely damage this wiki by making it harder to find and lowering its SEO. Possibly we can find a name that does help this wiki, but that's not one of the first things to do, when there are so many other problems (like you) to deal with.

4. Something we agree on! Yes, I will work with the new community to find a new design

5. Now you have surprised me. I would have expected you to be asking for things you find damaging. But either way, it's really not your choice any more - it's the choice of those trying to build and improve this wiki.

Despite my feelings about your actions, I have never ignored you, and have always tried to reply to you fully and with respect. And I definitely understand your issues with this wiki. The problem is I disagree with your perspective and don't see a way to change that. And, of course I very much disagree with your actions, and know no better way to deal with that by blocking you.

To all three of you: Dr. Pain, Airconny, and JamesHeart, I would ask this - as admins on various wikis, would you unblock someone who said "I vandalized those pages, and I trolled those people... but I'm a good user on other pages!" I would guess that you wouldn't trust that person to stick to being "good" elsewhere, or feel inclined to unblock them after their problem behavior. Wikia is a single community, as well as many communities. By damaging this wiki, you are damaging Wikia. So why would I unblock you? Much as I hate the current round of block/new-account/block, I'm not sure what other options there are. If you have ideas that don't involve harming this wiki, I'm willing to listen... but I'm also genuinely stumped, because from my perspective, all the things you want will hurt this wiki -- sannse (help forum | blog)  01:12, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * A name change may cause the wiki to be hard to find at first, but as word spreads about the name change, people who look for this kind of wiki will visit this one instead of getting confused with the other one, and those looking for more informational, looked-after, and higher-quality articles will visit the other wiki instead of getting confused with this one. It will eventually benefit both parties by having people being directed to what they are looking for without getting confused. TheSMASHFan (talk) 02:42, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am not saying that old users are the bad guys. Most of them have left Wikia (or at least, this wiki), are using the new wiki, and I wish them all the best for the future.  I mentioned two possible motivations for the admins staying here, and I acknowledge Toomai's reassurance of his good intentions, with thanks.


 * (edit conflict)Earlier, you basically stated "the admins" are here to damage the Wiki, which is not true. They all, including, but not limited to, Toomai, have good intentions and should be left to administer. My point here is that new admins should be promoted based on their own right, rather than staff choosing gets promoted such as they did when they promoted Jello Rabbit/Conker's Bad Fur Day, which turned out to be a really poor choice. If you can assure me that you will let the community select admins rather than the staff, we'll be cool.


 * "However, those of you that are using sock accounts, proxies, deception and lies to damage this wiki are definitely the bad guys. All I can say is that I hope the other users on your home wiki have the same opinion of you that I do."


 * I admitted that me and my team of users were doing things to harm the wiki. I'll ignore your unnecessary last statement there and just say that punish me, but don't punish the users with good intentions such as Anon or Toomai.


 * "The content will be naturally decloned as the wikis develop, simply by people editing the various articles. The current users have as much right to the current content (both morally and legally) as anyone else."


 * I see your point here; all I really want is to be re-assured that content will be going away and not towards that of the other wiki. In other words, active decloning and no content copying (and that will include the reverse as well, content copying from here isn't tolerated on the other wiki).


 * "A name change would likely damage this wiki by making it harder to find and lowering its SEO. Possibly we can find a name that does help this wiki, but that's not one of the first things to do, when there are so many other problems (like you) to deal with."


 * A name change could actually very much help this wiki be found. Right now, the names are very similar, but if you changed the name of it to say, Smashpedia, that could help it's SEO by making it more distinguishable from the other wiki. Also, just one name change doesn't need to be so drastic to the point that it doesn't even say Smash Bros, and, frankly, instead of worrying about SEO stuff, the wiki should worry about their content and matters on the wiki that still need to be settled, which will naturally improve SEO over time. It should be one of the first things to do; distinguish this wiki from the old one and get it a good reputation in its own right. Right now people just see it as the Wikia copy.


 * "Something we agree on! Yes, I will work with the new community to find a new design"


 * Good, good. A new layout is good. The other thing I meant, though, are the pages are formatted and located very similarly. This should be changed if possible, again to distinguish from the old wiki to create two wikis that have different emphases/offerings.


 * "Now you have surprised me. I would have expected you to be asking for things you find damaging.  But either way, it's really not your choice any more - it's the choice of those trying to build and improve this wiki."


 * Wow, what a surprise, I want to do something other than destroy a wiki. I don't mind having a Wikia SmashWiki around. I don't go around vandalizing Kirby Wiki even though I edit WiKirby. My intent here is to not have "our" stuff here. Like I said before, I'd rather a new Wiki were built, but since there's no way that's going to happen, I find a rename/overhaul of this Wiki to make it different from the other one is an acceptable solution. It's not like it will hurt you either. It will help this wiki return to activity and relevance and I don't mind a bit of competition. What I do mind, though, is when staff forces things on users. The "Community" here didn't enable that thread thing; you did. Same with forcing the content to remain. And that is my large issue that I hope that can be settled here with my...whatever you want to call them.


 * I am a firm believer in second chances, actually, and would probably give said user a chance, given it wasn't already a repeat offense. I realize this isn't my first offense, so I'm not going to ask to be unbanned again, but it would be nice if Airconny and JamesHeart are, as this is their first offense (albeit a major one, I'll give you that, but a global ban for a first offense?) That is all. Dr. AirHeart 125 (talk) 03:00, August 23, 2013 (UTC)